1 00:00:05,330 --> 00:00:03,100 foreign 2 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:05,340 [Music] 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:06,910 [Laughter] 4 00:00:13,210 --> 00:00:18,550 [Music] 5 00:00:23,689 --> 00:00:21,230 welcome back to another episode of 6 00:00:27,009 --> 00:00:23,699 liminal frames I am your host Nathan 7 00:00:29,810 --> 00:00:27,019 joined by my good friend co-host Darren 8 00:00:33,049 --> 00:00:29,820 EXO Academia Darren we're recording on a 9 00:00:34,670 --> 00:00:33,059 Friday which is uh kind of rare for us 10 00:00:37,430 --> 00:00:34,680 we usually get these done earlier in the 11 00:00:39,530 --> 00:00:37,440 week so when folks are listening to this 12 00:00:42,229 --> 00:00:39,540 episode when we launch it on Saturday 13 00:00:45,049 --> 00:00:42,239 evening this is going to be pretty fresh 14 00:00:46,850 --> 00:00:45,059 and in fact the freshness of this 15 00:00:48,830 --> 00:00:46,860 episode although all episodes are fresh 16 00:00:50,810 --> 00:00:48,840 by the way but the freshness of this one 17 00:00:54,830 --> 00:00:50,820 is extra fresh because we are going to 18 00:00:57,229 --> 00:00:54,840 cover a wide range of topics that are 19 00:00:59,630 --> 00:00:57,239 hitting the news right now there's been 20 00:01:01,850 --> 00:00:59,640 a lot of things going on in the last 21 00:01:04,009 --> 00:01:01,860 couple of days and we thought it would 22 00:01:07,190 --> 00:01:04,019 be best instead of taking kind of a 23 00:01:09,530 --> 00:01:07,200 theme and unpacking that instead to 24 00:01:12,830 --> 00:01:09,540 switch gears and spend some time looking 25 00:01:15,289 --> 00:01:12,840 at the uh the news bites the sound bites 26 00:01:17,030 --> 00:01:15,299 that have been coming across all of our 27 00:01:19,190 --> 00:01:17,040 feeds and so I think that's going to be 28 00:01:21,109 --> 00:01:19,200 a really fun conversation before we do 29 00:01:23,810 --> 00:01:21,119 that I always want to catch up with you 30 00:01:25,969 --> 00:01:23,820 and know how things are going so what's 31 00:01:27,289 --> 00:01:25,979 happening in your world uh and how is 32 00:01:29,090 --> 00:01:27,299 your spring going 33 00:01:31,010 --> 00:01:29,100 my spring is going pretty well I think 34 00:01:32,690 --> 00:01:31,020 both you and I uh suffer a little bit 35 00:01:35,330 --> 00:01:32,700 from allergies so I think we're both 36 00:01:36,770 --> 00:01:35,340 feeling that a little bit but 37 00:01:38,630 --> 00:01:36,780 I'll say this it's a lot better than it 38 00:01:39,890 --> 00:01:38,640 was when I was a kid so no complaints 39 00:01:41,990 --> 00:01:39,900 really 40 00:01:44,149 --> 00:01:42,000 um I also made an announcement recently 41 00:01:45,710 --> 00:01:44,159 that uh I have a new role is the 42 00:01:48,170 --> 00:01:45,720 communications director for the John 43 00:01:49,850 --> 00:01:48,180 Mack Institute that's kind of some of 44 00:01:51,230 --> 00:01:49,860 the thing I've been saying that I I had 45 00:01:52,850 --> 00:01:51,240 something to announce at some point I 46 00:01:55,310 --> 00:01:52,860 was excited about so I've made that 47 00:01:58,730 --> 00:01:55,320 announcement that is really exciting for 48 00:02:01,429 --> 00:01:58,740 me it really fits with my my vision my 49 00:02:04,190 --> 00:02:01,439 values a perfect alignment so I couldn't 50 00:02:05,630 --> 00:02:04,200 be happier about that and what a time to 51 00:02:08,029 --> 00:02:05,640 be doing it because as you say there's 52 00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:08,039 so much going on with this topic right 53 00:02:11,809 --> 00:02:10,319 now in the public and even this week 54 00:02:14,330 --> 00:02:11,819 there were so much that came out that 55 00:02:16,369 --> 00:02:14,340 really I think impresses upon us this 56 00:02:18,290 --> 00:02:16,379 notion that we really are in uncanny 57 00:02:21,770 --> 00:02:18,300 times and that this is not just your 58 00:02:23,330 --> 00:02:21,780 usual uh ufology kind of year so I think 59 00:02:24,890 --> 00:02:23,340 yeah it'd be great for us to get into it 60 00:02:26,630 --> 00:02:24,900 we kind of Switched gears before we 61 00:02:29,570 --> 00:02:26,640 jumped in tonight because we we both 62 00:02:32,210 --> 00:02:29,580 decided yeah this is a something that a 63 00:02:33,770 --> 00:02:32,220 topical uh kind of concept album 64 00:02:35,089 --> 00:02:33,780 approach wouldn't maybe what we want to 65 00:02:37,369 --> 00:02:35,099 do this time instead let's focus on 66 00:02:39,650 --> 00:02:37,379 what's going on what it might mean for 67 00:02:41,089 --> 00:02:39,660 the big picture in terms of disclosure I 68 00:02:43,250 --> 00:02:41,099 think it's going to be so fresh that you 69 00:02:45,410 --> 00:02:43,260 might even say minty fresh 70 00:02:47,869 --> 00:02:45,420 um I love that I love a good minty 71 00:02:49,910 --> 00:02:47,879 freshness so uh excellent and and 72 00:02:53,150 --> 00:02:49,920 congratulations by the way that uh 73 00:02:54,589 --> 00:02:53,160 announcement about the the the Jimmy uh 74 00:02:56,150 --> 00:02:54,599 communications director we're very 75 00:02:58,250 --> 00:02:56,160 excited for you I think it is an 76 00:03:01,550 --> 00:02:58,260 excellent fit uh that organization will 77 00:03:03,369 --> 00:03:01,560 be well served uh by your areas of 78 00:03:06,589 --> 00:03:03,379 interest and commitment to this topic 79 00:03:08,570 --> 00:03:06,599 and the timing couldn't be better in my 80 00:03:12,949 --> 00:03:08,580 opinion uh there'll be a lot of things 81 00:03:15,229 --> 00:03:12,959 happening that will necessitate an 82 00:03:17,270 --> 00:03:15,239 active role of Jimmy in the conversation 83 00:03:18,770 --> 00:03:17,280 so looking forward to where that goes I 84 00:03:20,990 --> 00:03:18,780 appreciate that I really do feel like 85 00:03:23,030 --> 00:03:21,000 there's a kind of synchronistic timing 86 00:03:25,009 --> 00:03:23,040 that's going on here because with Jimmy 87 00:03:26,869 --> 00:03:25,019 the goal isn't just to cover this topic 88 00:03:29,089 --> 00:03:26,879 and to represent experiencers that have 89 00:03:31,130 --> 00:03:29,099 been having these experiences uh with 90 00:03:33,589 --> 00:03:31,140 this phenomenon over decades and longer 91 00:03:35,449 --> 00:03:33,599 but also to actually think about how we 92 00:03:37,550 --> 00:03:35,459 could live differently as a collective 93 00:03:39,589 --> 00:03:37,560 Community which I think uh based on 94 00:03:42,649 --> 00:03:39,599 where we are today there's never been a 95 00:03:44,330 --> 00:03:42,659 more pressing matter to engage with 96 00:03:45,770 --> 00:03:44,340 absolutely 97 00:03:47,869 --> 00:03:45,780 all right we're going to jump right in 98 00:03:49,009 --> 00:03:47,879 here uh I think we're going to hit the 99 00:03:50,930 --> 00:03:49,019 first uh 100 00:03:52,970 --> 00:03:50,940 the first topic we're going to touch on 101 00:03:55,550 --> 00:03:52,980 is is probably the one that most folks 102 00:03:58,070 --> 00:03:55,560 are talking about the this week and that 103 00:04:00,770 --> 00:03:58,080 is the uh the hearing that took place in 104 00:04:02,690 --> 00:04:00,780 the Senate uh with Dr Sean Kirkpatrick 105 00:04:04,430 --> 00:04:02,700 uh and a couple of senators it wasn't 106 00:04:07,490 --> 00:04:04,440 heavily attended we do know that there 107 00:04:10,070 --> 00:04:07,500 was a closed uh session of that hearing 108 00:04:12,110 --> 00:04:10,080 before the public session uh which is a 109 00:04:13,850 --> 00:04:12,120 little bit unusual uh so maybe that's 110 00:04:16,430 --> 00:04:13,860 why some of the Senators sort of dropped 111 00:04:18,590 --> 00:04:16,440 off in the public facing uh conversation 112 00:04:20,930 --> 00:04:18,600 but nevertheless it was really 113 00:04:22,969 --> 00:04:20,940 interesting to watch uh I think quite a 114 00:04:25,730 --> 00:04:22,979 contrast from what we saw in the last 115 00:04:29,930 --> 00:04:25,740 hearing that took place uh where we 116 00:04:33,350 --> 00:04:29,940 heard from Moultrie and Bray there was a 117 00:04:35,749 --> 00:04:33,360 different tone to the conversation and 118 00:04:37,430 --> 00:04:35,759 uh in some ways more content that we 119 00:04:40,129 --> 00:04:37,440 could actually kind of stick our teeth 120 00:04:43,909 --> 00:04:40,139 sink our teeth into which I appreciated 121 00:04:46,129 --> 00:04:43,919 uh the hot takes on social media were as 122 00:04:48,290 --> 00:04:46,139 I think many would expect not very 123 00:04:50,990 --> 00:04:48,300 favorable a lot of folks were pretty 124 00:04:52,330 --> 00:04:51,000 disappointed that there weren't any uh 125 00:04:54,530 --> 00:04:52,340 you know sort of big Revelations 126 00:04:56,390 --> 00:04:54,540 although I think those that have been 127 00:04:59,510 --> 00:04:56,400 following this subject really closely 128 00:05:01,370 --> 00:04:59,520 and who have uh had conversations with 129 00:05:03,350 --> 00:05:01,380 those who have been working very heavily 130 00:05:05,629 --> 00:05:03,360 behind the scenes weren't all that 131 00:05:08,090 --> 00:05:05,639 surprised at what took place uh we were 132 00:05:11,150 --> 00:05:08,100 in many ways kind of expecting what we 133 00:05:13,670 --> 00:05:11,160 saw uh and weren't uh you know sort of 134 00:05:16,790 --> 00:05:13,680 all that dismayed that the conversation 135 00:05:19,430 --> 00:05:16,800 had not been catapulted into the into 136 00:05:21,469 --> 00:05:19,440 the net next phase or fourth or fifth or 137 00:05:23,090 --> 00:05:21,479 sixth gear as Elizondo likes to allude 138 00:05:26,210 --> 00:05:23,100 to I don't know that we're quite there 139 00:05:28,909 --> 00:05:26,220 yet and that's okay from all that we are 140 00:05:30,710 --> 00:05:28,919 hearing so as we kind of get into that 141 00:05:32,570 --> 00:05:30,720 topic I know we wanted to First maybe 142 00:05:34,370 --> 00:05:32,580 set the stage a little bit 143 00:05:37,070 --> 00:05:34,380 we're talking about something that we've 144 00:05:38,570 --> 00:05:37,080 touched on before and I know you'll want 145 00:05:40,249 --> 00:05:38,580 to unpack this a little bit but that's 146 00:05:44,090 --> 00:05:40,259 the issue of neuro-linguistic 147 00:05:47,090 --> 00:05:44,100 programming and how language uh the 148 00:05:49,129 --> 00:05:47,100 language that we use to to talk about a 149 00:05:51,890 --> 00:05:49,139 subject it really frames the way in 150 00:05:55,070 --> 00:05:51,900 which we think it defines the 151 00:05:57,890 --> 00:05:55,080 possibility space of what can happen or 152 00:05:59,689 --> 00:05:57,900 cannot happen and so there was a good 153 00:06:01,790 --> 00:05:59,699 bit of that occurring in this 154 00:06:03,469 --> 00:06:01,800 conversation and and it doesn't even 155 00:06:05,150 --> 00:06:03,479 have to be intentional I want to make 156 00:06:07,129 --> 00:06:05,160 sure that that point is made I'm not 157 00:06:09,830 --> 00:06:07,139 necessarily making an argument here that 158 00:06:11,689 --> 00:06:09,840 Dr Patrick sat down before the hearing 159 00:06:13,969 --> 00:06:11,699 and said I want to use these words so 160 00:06:16,310 --> 00:06:13,979 that I can kind of really direct this in 161 00:06:19,010 --> 00:06:16,320 a specific way but but more so to say 162 00:06:21,469 --> 00:06:19,020 that it's something that in many ways is 163 00:06:24,710 --> 00:06:21,479 baked into our culture and it is tied 164 00:06:26,870 --> 00:06:24,720 very closely into our uh materialist 165 00:06:29,809 --> 00:06:26,880 physicalist framework of looking at the 166 00:06:32,570 --> 00:06:29,819 world and when you approach a problem as 167 00:06:35,570 --> 00:06:32,580 mysterious as the phenomena you're 168 00:06:38,390 --> 00:06:35,580 approaching it with the the toolkit that 169 00:06:40,550 --> 00:06:38,400 you have and and those tools may be 170 00:06:42,529 --> 00:06:40,560 completely inadequate in order to be 171 00:06:45,110 --> 00:06:42,539 able to actually engage with interact 172 00:06:47,390 --> 00:06:45,120 with and understand this incredible 173 00:06:51,830 --> 00:06:47,400 mystery but where would you want to take 174 00:06:53,749 --> 00:06:51,840 this uh with that concept of NLP 175 00:06:55,490 --> 00:06:53,759 yeah I think there's a few things to 176 00:06:57,409 --> 00:06:55,500 touch on there number one is the 177 00:07:00,710 --> 00:06:57,419 language that's used neuro-linguistic 178 00:07:04,309 --> 00:07:00,720 programming speaks to how both language 179 00:07:06,770 --> 00:07:04,319 tone uh gestures all sorts of different 180 00:07:08,270 --> 00:07:06,780 kinds of delivery mechanisms are sending 181 00:07:10,309 --> 00:07:08,280 a message that is meant to program 182 00:07:13,189 --> 00:07:10,319 people this doesn't have to be something 183 00:07:16,010 --> 00:07:13,199 nefarious as in The Manchurian Candidate 184 00:07:17,570 --> 00:07:16,020 or something it just means that people 185 00:07:19,790 --> 00:07:17,580 who know how to do this well whether 186 00:07:21,230 --> 00:07:19,800 they're public relations experts or you 187 00:07:23,710 --> 00:07:21,240 know spokespeople for the government or 188 00:07:26,689 --> 00:07:23,720 whatever know that the language you use 189 00:07:28,850 --> 00:07:26,699 helps to frame the matter altogether 190 00:07:31,249 --> 00:07:28,860 right and you when you have are in the 191 00:07:33,170 --> 00:07:31,259 position where you get to decide which 192 00:07:34,909 --> 00:07:33,180 language you're going to use you already 193 00:07:37,189 --> 00:07:34,919 are on the front foot because you can 194 00:07:38,570 --> 00:07:37,199 determine which direction the 195 00:07:40,670 --> 00:07:38,580 conversation goes and that's why you'll 196 00:07:43,070 --> 00:07:40,680 often hear people talk about trying to 197 00:07:45,230 --> 00:07:43,080 get ahead of the curve on a narrative 198 00:07:47,210 --> 00:07:45,240 what they mean is if you get ahead of it 199 00:07:48,589 --> 00:07:47,220 before the information comes out you can 200 00:07:51,409 --> 00:07:48,599 actually already steer it in a certain 201 00:07:53,990 --> 00:07:51,419 direction that's favorable for you right 202 00:07:56,390 --> 00:07:54,000 so there's there's certain wordings that 203 00:07:58,189 --> 00:07:56,400 were used in this in this hearing 204 00:08:01,730 --> 00:07:58,199 certain 205 00:08:04,189 --> 00:08:01,740 just expectations in terms of a panel of 206 00:08:06,529 --> 00:08:04,199 Congress people and then a scientist 207 00:08:09,290 --> 00:08:06,539 right I was thinking about how in in 208 00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:09,300 yester decade or yester Century we might 209 00:08:13,490 --> 00:08:11,460 have had doctors of the church or 210 00:08:16,309 --> 00:08:13,500 theologians or Priestly authorities 211 00:08:18,050 --> 00:08:16,319 before Royal Court right 212 00:08:19,969 --> 00:08:18,060 um King Charles or something and and 213 00:08:21,409 --> 00:08:19,979 making their their statements and then 214 00:08:23,689 --> 00:08:21,419 kind of back and forth what is God's 215 00:08:25,430 --> 00:08:23,699 will here what can we say about the 216 00:08:26,990 --> 00:08:25,440 nature of reality and astronomy and 217 00:08:29,869 --> 00:08:27,000 those kind of things that that have come 218 00:08:33,949 --> 00:08:29,879 up in the past now what we have is a 219 00:08:35,990 --> 00:08:33,959 scientific Authority that sits before a 220 00:08:38,510 --> 00:08:36,000 democratically elected Congressional 221 00:08:40,550 --> 00:08:38,520 panel right so it's different times but 222 00:08:42,290 --> 00:08:40,560 there's still certain expectations and 223 00:08:44,089 --> 00:08:42,300 Norms that are baked into that procedure 224 00:08:46,070 --> 00:08:44,099 so that's the first thing I would say 225 00:08:47,750 --> 00:08:46,080 when I think about how the entire thing 226 00:08:49,490 --> 00:08:47,760 was set up and how that steers the 227 00:08:52,250 --> 00:08:49,500 conversation in a certain way 228 00:08:55,009 --> 00:08:52,260 mm-hmm and if any of you have worked in 229 00:08:57,110 --> 00:08:55,019 a corporate environment uh you're 230 00:08:58,910 --> 00:08:57,120 familiar with this as well you probably 231 00:09:01,130 --> 00:08:58,920 do it all the time without even thinking 232 00:09:05,269 --> 00:09:01,140 about it particularly if you are giving 233 00:09:07,910 --> 00:09:05,279 a presentation to a client or if you're 234 00:09:10,310 --> 00:09:07,920 making a case about your performance to 235 00:09:13,190 --> 00:09:10,320 your boss you're going to be using 236 00:09:15,230 --> 00:09:13,200 certain sets of language to kind of 237 00:09:17,990 --> 00:09:15,240 frame up how you are doing how your 238 00:09:20,090 --> 00:09:18,000 business is performing uh so that the 239 00:09:23,030 --> 00:09:20,100 the audience the recipient of that 240 00:09:24,889 --> 00:09:23,040 information is is willing to receive it 241 00:09:27,230 --> 00:09:24,899 in the most favorable positive light 242 00:09:30,410 --> 00:09:27,240 possible right and just as you said we 243 00:09:33,590 --> 00:09:30,420 have a scientist here who who was really 244 00:09:37,490 --> 00:09:33,600 well versed in science speak and was 245 00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:37,500 very sober uh had very methodical uh you 246 00:09:42,170 --> 00:09:40,260 know very very cool and collected and 247 00:09:44,889 --> 00:09:42,180 that's what you would want to see so 248 00:09:48,410 --> 00:09:44,899 just that that sort of persona of Sean 249 00:09:51,050 --> 00:09:48,420 Kirkpatrick as uh the right person for 250 00:09:52,850 --> 00:09:51,060 the job and and and also he signaled 251 00:09:54,710 --> 00:09:52,860 that he was that right person in other 252 00:09:56,930 --> 00:09:54,720 ways as well if you'll recall from the 253 00:09:59,050 --> 00:09:56,940 hearing he even made it a point to drop 254 00:10:02,150 --> 00:09:59,060 the fact that when the Chinese balloon 255 00:10:04,610 --> 00:10:02,160 Fiasco was happening he was summoned in 256 00:10:07,250 --> 00:10:04,620 the middle of the night uh to give his 257 00:10:09,350 --> 00:10:07,260 opinion on whatever it might be I mean 258 00:10:12,710 --> 00:10:09,360 just saying that you were summoned by 259 00:10:14,329 --> 00:10:12,720 authorities at this huge event lends 260 00:10:17,269 --> 00:10:14,339 credibility to everything that he's 261 00:10:20,449 --> 00:10:17,279 going to say thereafter he's in the room 262 00:10:23,030 --> 00:10:20,459 with the decision makers trying to 263 00:10:26,750 --> 00:10:23,040 understand what is going on therefore he 264 00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:26,760 can be trusted uh to uh you know proceed 265 00:10:30,710 --> 00:10:29,040 in a good faith way uh that that 266 00:10:34,070 --> 00:10:30,720 everything is going according to plan 267 00:10:36,650 --> 00:10:34,080 and in fact we did hear that echoed by 268 00:10:38,329 --> 00:10:36,660 Senator gillibrand after the hearing uh 269 00:10:40,790 --> 00:10:38,339 in her comments that that she had full 270 00:10:42,290 --> 00:10:40,800 faith in him that uh he you know he's 271 00:10:44,329 --> 00:10:42,300 the right person for the job that he's 272 00:10:47,090 --> 00:10:44,339 really going to do the best that he 273 00:10:48,530 --> 00:10:47,100 possibly can and there is some I think 274 00:10:51,410 --> 00:10:48,540 question as to whether or not that 275 00:10:53,870 --> 00:10:51,420 actually is true but from a kind of a 276 00:10:56,090 --> 00:10:53,880 bureaucrat speak it it certainly is 277 00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:56,100 right so from from the the framework of 278 00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:59,040 a politician or the bureaucrat if he's 279 00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:00,480 kind of going through the motions and 280 00:11:04,370 --> 00:11:03,120 checking all those boxes uh you're just 281 00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:04,380 going to sit there and kind of Nod along 282 00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:05,760 and be like yeah all this sounds good 283 00:11:09,650 --> 00:11:07,440 good to me how much money do you need 284 00:11:10,910 --> 00:11:09,660 right exactly 285 00:11:13,009 --> 00:11:10,920 you know it's interesting because 286 00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:13,019 sometimes when you have the privilege of 287 00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:15,060 being the only scientist in the room 288 00:11:20,990 --> 00:11:17,760 kind of thing of that level then you're 289 00:11:23,090 --> 00:11:21,000 gonna speak in science speak and the the 290 00:11:24,829 --> 00:11:23,100 mere mortals who don't have those kind 291 00:11:26,690 --> 00:11:24,839 of backgrounds are just assuming that 292 00:11:28,610 --> 00:11:26,700 you're you're doing what you're saying 293 00:11:31,009 --> 00:11:28,620 and that this is partly what speaks to 294 00:11:33,710 --> 00:11:31,019 the NLP part just by using scientific 295 00:11:35,329 --> 00:11:33,720 language and in a very methodical dry 296 00:11:36,530 --> 00:11:35,339 way right people talked about how that 297 00:11:38,870 --> 00:11:36,540 they were almost falling asleep during 298 00:11:41,630 --> 00:11:38,880 the hearing but that speaks to this sort 299 00:11:44,269 --> 00:11:41,640 of impartial objective scientific 300 00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:44,279 analysis right so his very delivery was 301 00:11:49,310 --> 00:11:47,160 part of the the NLP aspect right that it 302 00:11:51,710 --> 00:11:49,320 sounds like a scientist who doesn't get 303 00:11:54,310 --> 00:11:51,720 emotional he's not biased he's just 304 00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:54,320 carefully methodically you know almost 305 00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:57,360 painfully slowly working through every 306 00:12:00,650 --> 00:11:58,800 single case he talked about that right 307 00:12:02,690 --> 00:12:00,660 how he's gone through every case goes 308 00:12:04,850 --> 00:12:02,700 through a several steps right before 309 00:12:06,350 --> 00:12:04,860 they determine what it is and if it's 310 00:12:08,210 --> 00:12:06,360 unclear then he sends it to this other 311 00:12:10,250 --> 00:12:08,220 uh committee or something that also 312 00:12:11,630 --> 00:12:10,260 gives their their assessment comes back 313 00:12:13,730 --> 00:12:11,640 and then he makes a final stamp of 314 00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:13,740 approval one way or the other 315 00:12:17,810 --> 00:12:16,380 but it's interesting because you had a 316 00:12:19,130 --> 00:12:17,820 response from Gary Nolan that I thought 317 00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:19,140 was quite interesting because then you 318 00:12:24,590 --> 00:12:21,839 have someone who also is a PhD in 319 00:12:26,449 --> 00:12:24,600 science and and has 320 00:12:28,850 --> 00:12:26,459 great familiarity with this topic 321 00:12:31,610 --> 00:12:28,860 specifically and he has enough 322 00:12:33,290 --> 00:12:31,620 understanding to actually pay specific 323 00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:33,300 attention to the words that are used the 324 00:12:38,329 --> 00:12:34,800 things that are said the way things are 325 00:12:40,910 --> 00:12:38,339 framed and so as an expert scientist he 326 00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:40,920 can actually uh notice a few things that 327 00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:42,720 maybe the average person is not going to 328 00:12:48,050 --> 00:12:44,160 notice and so this is something Gary 329 00:12:50,509 --> 00:12:48,060 Nolan tweeted after the hearing quote it 330 00:12:53,389 --> 00:12:50,519 was as expected but if but if you define 331 00:12:55,370 --> 00:12:53,399 the science too narrowly even a warp 332 00:12:58,490 --> 00:12:55,380 driven gnat could not fit through the 333 00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:58,500 needle watch the definitions saying you 334 00:13:02,690 --> 00:13:00,480 are doing science or saying science 335 00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:02,700 should be done does not mean you're 336 00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:06,000 actually doing science properly unquote 337 00:13:09,470 --> 00:13:07,680 it's a pretty pointed statement right 338 00:13:11,930 --> 00:13:09,480 he's saying that don't be fooled by 339 00:13:14,329 --> 00:13:11,940 science speak alone pay close attention 340 00:13:15,769 --> 00:13:14,339 to definitions I talk about this all the 341 00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:15,779 time right the parameters we set 342 00:13:19,370 --> 00:13:18,060 determine the possible answers and we're 343 00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:19,380 going to get to that in a minute I think 344 00:13:24,530 --> 00:13:22,320 in terms of this this ET hypothesis that 345 00:13:27,230 --> 00:13:24,540 was uh talked about as well 346 00:13:29,690 --> 00:13:27,240 yeah exactly I first of all I always 347 00:13:33,050 --> 00:13:29,700 loved the the Nolan fastballs he's he's 348 00:13:35,389 --> 00:13:33,060 got uh some amazing zingers uh pretty 349 00:13:36,650 --> 00:13:35,399 much on demand that guy is a tweet 350 00:13:37,730 --> 00:13:36,660 machine 351 00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:37,740 um and I think you're right perfectly 352 00:13:42,170 --> 00:13:39,360 kind of summed up an alternate 353 00:13:46,030 --> 00:13:42,180 perspective uh but the quote that got a 354 00:13:48,590 --> 00:13:46,040 lot of attention related to this sort of 355 00:13:50,690 --> 00:13:48,600 defining or narrowing uh the 356 00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:50,700 understanding of what is science or not 357 00:13:56,449 --> 00:13:53,279 on that science is the following so 358 00:13:58,610 --> 00:13:56,459 Kirkpatrick said Arrow has found no 359 00:14:01,430 --> 00:13:58,620 credible evidence thus far of 360 00:14:04,490 --> 00:14:01,440 extraterrestrial activity off-world 361 00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:04,500 technology or objects that defy the 362 00:14:09,170 --> 00:14:06,720 known laws of physics 363 00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:09,180 unquote yes and so this is what I 364 00:14:14,509 --> 00:14:11,839 tweeted in response to that I said quote 365 00:14:16,430 --> 00:14:14,519 declaring there is no evidence for E.T 366 00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,440 presence suggests we have already 367 00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:18,720 exhaustively determined what said 368 00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:21,120 evidence would look like considering 369 00:14:25,970 --> 00:14:23,040 such a presence would likely be more 370 00:14:28,129 --> 00:14:25,980 advanced than us suggests by itself that 371 00:14:29,870 --> 00:14:28,139 the first notion is foolhardy at best 372 00:14:32,269 --> 00:14:29,880 unquote 373 00:14:33,889 --> 00:14:32,279 my point being there it's a it's kind of 374 00:14:35,449 --> 00:14:33,899 a Preposterous statement to make because 375 00:14:37,850 --> 00:14:35,459 if we haven't even begun to talk about 376 00:14:39,650 --> 00:14:37,860 what that evidence would look like how 377 00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:39,660 can you make such a statement right and 378 00:14:45,230 --> 00:14:42,320 again it's sort of the the the 379 00:14:47,449 --> 00:14:45,240 lazy kind of response that gets that 380 00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:47,459 doesn't get caught these days the way 381 00:14:51,889 --> 00:14:50,160 that the press in its current iteration 382 00:14:53,329 --> 00:14:51,899 exists right and then I think in 383 00:14:55,310 --> 00:14:53,339 previous decades 384 00:14:56,750 --> 00:14:55,320 a more hard-hitting press that was 385 00:15:00,530 --> 00:14:56,760 really holding feet to the fire would 386 00:15:02,090 --> 00:15:00,540 say well has there been a panel put 387 00:15:04,730 --> 00:15:02,100 together to decide what that evidence 388 00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:04,740 would be and have you had different 389 00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:06,480 um objective observers with 390 00:15:10,129 --> 00:15:08,639 understanding in these matters ring in 391 00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:10,139 on whether or not they think that's a 392 00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,720 fair assessment or a fair criteria set 393 00:15:15,769 --> 00:15:14,639 of criteria to make that assessment and 394 00:15:17,810 --> 00:15:15,779 if not 395 00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:17,820 how is this statement anything more than 396 00:15:22,730 --> 00:15:21,420 propaganda right because again it's what 397 00:15:24,769 --> 00:15:22,740 I'm getting at is it really is not 398 00:15:26,810 --> 00:15:24,779 saying much of anything and yet for many 399 00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:26,820 people they'll be like oh okay well then 400 00:15:30,889 --> 00:15:28,079 I guess it's just you know I guess it's 401 00:15:33,530 --> 00:15:30,899 just Chinese drones after all right 402 00:15:35,210 --> 00:15:33,540 um this is again the NLP part because 403 00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:35,220 he's making a statement that sounds 404 00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:37,680 substantive when it's really not there 405 00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:39,180 isn't really really even the kind of 406 00:15:44,110 --> 00:15:42,000 apparatus in place that could uh hold 407 00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:44,120 this right to some sort of objective 408 00:15:49,009 --> 00:15:46,800 analysis and standards right so this is 409 00:15:50,689 --> 00:15:49,019 Again part of the irony here we're 410 00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:50,699 talking about objective science we're 411 00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,320 talking about establishing a very clear 412 00:15:56,629 --> 00:15:54,720 protocol right and yet that kind of 413 00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:56,639 statement is not scientific at all right 414 00:15:59,449 --> 00:15:58,079 so this is the kind of thing where we 415 00:16:01,129 --> 00:15:59,459 see 416 00:16:03,009 --> 00:16:01,139 um him speaking out of both sides of his 417 00:16:05,930 --> 00:16:03,019 mouth to some degree 418 00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:05,940 yeah I would have loved for some 419 00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:08,160 hard-hitting follow-ups to statements 420 00:16:13,310 --> 00:16:10,860 like that as you noted there it would 421 00:16:14,410 --> 00:16:13,320 have been great to say well explain to 422 00:16:17,449 --> 00:16:14,420 us 423 00:16:20,210 --> 00:16:17,459 what what you would be looking for to 424 00:16:22,250 --> 00:16:20,220 know that it is extraterrestrial or not 425 00:16:25,069 --> 00:16:22,260 extraterrestrial you know how are you 426 00:16:26,990 --> 00:16:25,079 defining that you know just just 427 00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:27,000 generally right 428 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:28,560 um what assumptions are you bringing to 429 00:16:34,009 --> 00:16:31,500 the table in order to you know get your 430 00:16:35,810 --> 00:16:34,019 mind around it's in that bucket or it's 431 00:16:38,449 --> 00:16:35,820 not in that bucket uh I don't think 432 00:16:40,670 --> 00:16:38,459 that's ever been articulated uh at least 433 00:16:42,110 --> 00:16:40,680 I've not heard it articulated from that 434 00:16:44,689 --> 00:16:42,120 office 435 00:16:47,329 --> 00:16:44,699 um I will say too though that this this 436 00:16:50,269 --> 00:16:47,339 statement in many ways kind of mirrors 437 00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:50,279 what the paper that he co-wrote with Avi 438 00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:53,279 Loeb was was getting at and particularly 439 00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:55,440 the last part of the statement about 440 00:17:01,370 --> 00:16:58,320 objects that defy the known laws of 441 00:17:03,050 --> 00:17:01,380 physics right so again kind of making 442 00:17:05,809 --> 00:17:03,060 the argument here that we've not seen 443 00:17:08,030 --> 00:17:05,819 anything Fantastical uh and and 444 00:17:10,010 --> 00:17:08,040 basically things really do need to 445 00:17:13,730 --> 00:17:10,020 behave in accordance with what we 446 00:17:15,409 --> 00:17:13,740 understand is possible in our science so 447 00:17:17,689 --> 00:17:15,419 thus far you know we've not seen 448 00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:17,699 anything outside of those parameters but 449 00:17:22,730 --> 00:17:20,880 but but notably too here no credible 450 00:17:24,890 --> 00:17:22,740 evidence of anything outside of those 451 00:17:26,510 --> 00:17:24,900 parameters so you know what is credible 452 00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:26,520 evidence we don't know what that means 453 00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:28,799 we don't know what the definition of 454 00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:31,919 credibility is in this context uh does 455 00:17:38,270 --> 00:17:35,520 he consider a witness testimony of an 456 00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:38,280 object that you know instantaneously 457 00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:40,980 accelerated to mock two or three do we 458 00:17:46,130 --> 00:17:43,440 consider that to be uh you know credible 459 00:17:47,930 --> 00:17:46,140 evidence I mean what what threshold does 460 00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:47,940 it have to meet in order to meet 461 00:17:51,529 --> 00:17:49,679 credibility 462 00:17:53,330 --> 00:17:51,539 right great points and uh and John 463 00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,340 Ramirez in a previous statement we're 464 00:17:57,049 --> 00:17:54,960 going to talk about him later on but he 465 00:17:58,909 --> 00:17:57,059 made a statement earlier uh weeks ago 466 00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:58,919 about these kinds of hearings and he 467 00:18:03,289 --> 00:18:01,679 said pay close attention because when 468 00:18:05,210 --> 00:18:03,299 they say there is no evidence for no 469 00:18:06,890 --> 00:18:05,220 credible evidence there again they're 470 00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:06,900 not saying it but what they're what 471 00:18:11,570 --> 00:18:09,720 they're actually speaking to is the the 472 00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:11,580 narrow parameters of what they've been 473 00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:14,160 examining right the narrow parameters of 474 00:18:17,870 --> 00:18:16,080 what they've been examining so they 475 00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:17,880 might say based on the footage we're 476 00:18:22,430 --> 00:18:20,160 looking at we've not come across that 477 00:18:24,049 --> 00:18:22,440 but we don't have access to sensor data 478 00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:24,059 we don't have access or we're not 479 00:18:29,330 --> 00:18:25,919 considering expert witness data from 480 00:18:30,830 --> 00:18:29,340 F-18 pilots and radar operators right so 481 00:18:32,750 --> 00:18:30,840 it's not and so some people some people 482 00:18:34,430 --> 00:18:32,760 right away got up in arms and said well 483 00:18:36,590 --> 00:18:34,440 what about this case and the Nimitz and 484 00:18:38,810 --> 00:18:36,600 this and this and this you know and and 485 00:18:41,450 --> 00:18:38,820 Decades of experiencers having 486 00:18:43,549 --> 00:18:41,460 encounters and sightings right but what 487 00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:43,559 people need to realize as John Ramirez 488 00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:45,120 pointed out 489 00:18:50,330 --> 00:18:48,000 he's not saying it but what he's what 490 00:18:51,470 --> 00:18:50,340 he's speaking to is the the narrow 491 00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:51,480 evidence they've been looking at 492 00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:53,640 according to the parameters that they've 493 00:18:57,890 --> 00:18:54,960 defined which he has not even 494 00:19:01,010 --> 00:18:57,900 established publicly right so this again 495 00:19:02,830 --> 00:19:01,020 is a way to sour the public on this 496 00:19:05,690 --> 00:19:02,840 notion that it could be something 497 00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:05,700 non-prosaic while also not really 498 00:19:09,770 --> 00:19:08,640 addressing the broad evidence that 499 00:19:12,169 --> 00:19:09,780 actually is part of the public 500 00:19:13,370 --> 00:19:12,179 conversation right and of course on top 501 00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:13,380 of that one of the things that we were 502 00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:15,600 talking about before went on the air is 503 00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:18,240 is again it's it's so unscientific it 504 00:19:22,730 --> 00:19:20,460 kind of screams at us and yet it's not 505 00:19:25,610 --> 00:19:22,740 really talked about and that is that the 506 00:19:28,669 --> 00:19:25,620 only hypothesis he considered outside of 507 00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:28,679 something prosaic was E.T right and any 508 00:19:32,750 --> 00:19:30,179 of us who've been in this topic for more 509 00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:32,760 than like nine days know that you don't 510 00:19:36,289 --> 00:19:34,559 have to be here very long before you get 511 00:19:38,510 --> 00:19:36,299 into the interdimensional question the 512 00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:38,520 extra tempestral question the crypto 513 00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:39,840 terrestrial question the 514 00:19:43,730 --> 00:19:42,000 ultra-terrestrial question right these 515 00:19:45,169 --> 00:19:43,740 are all other possibilities so to say 516 00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:45,179 that it's only 517 00:19:50,510 --> 00:19:48,000 either something human a nation-state or 518 00:19:53,150 --> 00:19:50,520 a rogue kind of a human group that's 519 00:19:55,070 --> 00:19:53,160 done something or it must be ET is 520 00:19:57,650 --> 00:19:55,080 already a huge assumption that's not 521 00:19:59,810 --> 00:19:57,660 scientific it's not objective what 522 00:20:02,870 --> 00:19:59,820 criteria have been chosen to determine 523 00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,880 that only ET and prosaic are the options 524 00:20:06,049 --> 00:20:04,320 on the table right these are the kind of 525 00:20:07,370 --> 00:20:06,059 things that really scream at you when 526 00:20:11,150 --> 00:20:07,380 you think about it from a truly 527 00:20:13,850 --> 00:20:11,160 objective point of view I think yeah 100 528 00:20:16,010 --> 00:20:13,860 um it's uh you know it's very 529 00:20:19,370 --> 00:20:16,020 fascinating I I you know to take a kind 530 00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:19,380 of a pro approach to this I I was 531 00:20:23,150 --> 00:20:22,080 impressed that Ramirez uh and we're 532 00:20:24,110 --> 00:20:23,160 gonna like I said we're gonna talk a 533 00:20:26,810 --> 00:20:24,120 little bit more about him in a second 534 00:20:29,570 --> 00:20:26,820 here but he he did say that one of the 535 00:20:32,510 --> 00:20:29,580 positive things from this hearing is 536 00:20:35,090 --> 00:20:32,520 that it does further the legitimacy of 537 00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:35,100 the topic you know generally and in 538 00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:37,980 particular amongst other agencies and 539 00:20:41,390 --> 00:20:39,720 and I want to I want to kind of stay 540 00:20:44,150 --> 00:20:41,400 with this one for a second because that 541 00:20:46,669 --> 00:20:44,160 was talked about a good bit that uh that 542 00:20:49,130 --> 00:20:46,679 there is a a greater a greater 543 00:20:52,010 --> 00:20:49,140 willingness and acceptance to report on 544 00:20:54,110 --> 00:20:52,020 UAP that there is uh at least seemingly 545 00:20:55,850 --> 00:20:54,120 on the surface level a willingness and a 546 00:20:58,190 --> 00:20:55,860 collaboration amongst the heads of other 547 00:21:00,770 --> 00:20:58,200 agencies and and branches of the 548 00:21:02,690 --> 00:21:00,780 military uh to normalize reporting of 549 00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:02,700 the UAP you know if you see something 550 00:21:08,090 --> 00:21:05,039 say something and that sounds like it is 551 00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:08,100 starting to be the case now you know how 552 00:21:14,029 --> 00:21:10,799 those uh reports are collated how they 553 00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:14,039 are uh you know accepted or discarded I 554 00:21:18,590 --> 00:21:16,320 mean that remains to be seen but we are 555 00:21:21,169 --> 00:21:18,600 at least making it okay to have this 556 00:21:23,390 --> 00:21:21,179 conversation uh and and in fact I will 557 00:21:25,370 --> 00:21:23,400 point out too that that not only has 558 00:21:27,650 --> 00:21:25,380 Kirk Kirkpatrick mentioned this but 559 00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,660 other uh spokes folks have mentioned 560 00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:29,520 this as well that this is a global 561 00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:32,400 phenomena right so there was um and I 562 00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:34,559 forget his name but he was a spokesman 563 00:21:39,230 --> 00:21:37,140 for the space force essentially saying 564 00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:39,240 that very directly recently that this is 565 00:21:43,130 --> 00:21:41,280 a a global phenomenon it's important 566 00:21:44,690 --> 00:21:43,140 that we you know we we take a look at it 567 00:21:47,149 --> 00:21:44,700 we're very serious about it for flight 568 00:21:49,310 --> 00:21:47,159 safety all these things and again kind 569 00:21:51,890 --> 00:21:49,320 of defining that it's not a unique 570 00:21:54,890 --> 00:21:51,900 problem to the U.S it's not necessarily 571 00:21:56,649 --> 00:21:54,900 a unique problem uh to the Chinese or 572 00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:56,659 the Russians like it's it's everywhere 573 00:22:01,490 --> 00:22:00,240 and because it's everywhere it's okay if 574 00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:01,500 you're seeing something we need to know 575 00:22:06,350 --> 00:22:03,840 what you saw where you saw it let's get 576 00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:06,360 as much data as we possibly can and then 577 00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:08,280 we're going to analyze that and and 578 00:22:12,770 --> 00:22:09,840 classify it right we're going to create 579 00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:12,780 a formal classification effort that that 580 00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:14,700 is the task I mean I will say we're very 581 00:22:19,010 --> 00:22:16,260 good at doing that we're very good at 582 00:22:20,930 --> 00:22:19,020 categorizing classifying that's like the 583 00:22:23,090 --> 00:22:20,940 epitome of our science and in a way is 584 00:22:25,310 --> 00:22:23,100 is looking at these things and so to 585 00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:25,320 kind of get that effort moving and get 586 00:22:30,770 --> 00:22:27,120 it formally established 587 00:22:34,190 --> 00:22:30,780 is a very important piece of the overall 588 00:22:35,570 --> 00:22:34,200 process here right we you know when you 589 00:22:36,950 --> 00:22:35,580 looked at the hearing and you saw there 590 00:22:38,930 --> 00:22:36,960 were only a couple of senators present 591 00:22:40,970 --> 00:22:38,940 actually told you all you needed to know 592 00:22:43,130 --> 00:22:40,980 that there weren't going to be any you 593 00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:43,140 know amazing Bombshells dropped by Sean 594 00:22:46,850 --> 00:22:44,640 Kirkpatrick because you don't drop a 595 00:22:48,529 --> 00:22:46,860 bombshell in front of a two and just two 596 00:22:50,270 --> 00:22:48,539 senators who are like wait you just said 597 00:22:52,430 --> 00:22:50,280 that we do have credible evidence of 598 00:22:54,830 --> 00:22:52,440 extraterrestrials and that is never 599 00:22:58,370 --> 00:22:54,840 going to happen in a hearing in this 600 00:23:01,310 --> 00:22:58,380 context ever ever so to expect such 601 00:23:03,289 --> 00:23:01,320 would be I think completely naive 602 00:23:04,669 --> 00:23:03,299 very true and you made a great point 603 00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:04,679 there and I think we should we should 604 00:23:08,029 --> 00:23:06,480 hit on this because those of us 605 00:23:09,409 --> 00:23:08,039 intimately familiar with this topic that 606 00:23:10,970 --> 00:23:09,419 are obsessed with it and and think about 607 00:23:12,529 --> 00:23:10,980 it and talk about it and research it 608 00:23:14,990 --> 00:23:12,539 every day 609 00:23:17,210 --> 00:23:15,000 can feel frustrated at the snail's pace 610 00:23:18,350 --> 00:23:17,220 of progress on the one hand there's 611 00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:18,360 numerous things I want to say here and 612 00:23:22,250 --> 00:23:19,919 that we can get into 613 00:23:25,490 --> 00:23:22,260 one is that you're absolutely right that 614 00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:25,500 we are now seeing a shift where not only 615 00:23:31,130 --> 00:23:28,559 are different military personnel 616 00:23:33,230 --> 00:23:31,140 encouraged to report when they see 617 00:23:35,570 --> 00:23:33,240 things that seem anomalous but they're 618 00:23:37,789 --> 00:23:35,580 actually uh ordered to right this is 619 00:23:39,890 --> 00:23:37,799 part of their the clear orders are that 620 00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:39,900 you do need to report on this because it 621 00:23:43,970 --> 00:23:41,940 could be a national security issue again 622 00:23:46,310 --> 00:23:43,980 that's partly the way that military 623 00:23:47,330 --> 00:23:46,320 speak works right but nevertheless you 624 00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:47,340 can understand from their point of view 625 00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:48,600 it you would definitely want to take 626 00:23:51,590 --> 00:23:50,100 that into account which is very 627 00:23:53,390 --> 00:23:51,600 different than yester decade where 628 00:23:56,210 --> 00:23:53,400 people were basically 629 00:23:57,890 --> 00:23:56,220 you know uh threatened with not getting 630 00:23:59,090 --> 00:23:57,900 their pension or not getting any kind of 631 00:24:01,070 --> 00:23:59,100 promotions if they talked about that 632 00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:01,080 silly stuff so that's a big shift right 633 00:24:06,649 --> 00:24:03,840 and you're absolutely right that that is 634 00:24:08,090 --> 00:24:06,659 beginning to shift the tone when we have 635 00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:08,100 press conferences there isn't so much 636 00:24:12,169 --> 00:24:09,840 snickering there isn't you know X-Files 637 00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:12,179 music we think back to the famous 638 00:24:16,850 --> 00:24:13,440 situation 639 00:24:19,669 --> 00:24:16,860 after the the uh Phoenix Lights 640 00:24:21,649 --> 00:24:19,679 uh flap in the 90s where the governor of 641 00:24:23,450 --> 00:24:21,659 Arizona had one of his staff members 642 00:24:24,529 --> 00:24:23,460 walk on stage in an alien costume 643 00:24:27,770 --> 00:24:24,539 remember that 644 00:24:29,630 --> 00:24:27,780 and then it made all the media present 645 00:24:32,210 --> 00:24:29,640 laugh and everyone kind of scoffed and 646 00:24:35,210 --> 00:24:32,220 laughed about it he went on to say he 647 00:24:36,590 --> 00:24:35,220 regretted that right and that that um I 648 00:24:37,730 --> 00:24:36,600 think he went even as far as to say that 649 00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:37,740 he actually had seen something that 650 00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:40,559 night too along with many many other the 651 00:24:43,130 --> 00:24:41,700 people in the in the city of Phoenix 652 00:24:46,430 --> 00:24:43,140 right 653 00:24:48,169 --> 00:24:46,440 um but also I want to say too even you 654 00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:48,179 know as the communications director for 655 00:24:52,730 --> 00:24:51,000 the John Mack Institute one of the goals 656 00:24:55,970 --> 00:24:52,740 we have is to interface with academics 657 00:24:57,230 --> 00:24:55,980 right media academics experiencers and 658 00:24:59,930 --> 00:24:57,240 there's definitely a shifting 659 00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:59,940 perspective in Academia to this right 660 00:25:04,010 --> 00:25:02,159 which is really encouraging suddenly 661 00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:04,020 there's a lot of people that want to 662 00:25:09,049 --> 00:25:06,480 study this that see this as legitimate 663 00:25:11,270 --> 00:25:09,059 they may not determine that it's ET or 664 00:25:13,490 --> 00:25:11,280 extraterrestrial or ultra-terrestrial 665 00:25:15,169 --> 00:25:13,500 whatever but they they recognize it 666 00:25:17,149 --> 00:25:15,179 something right it's a it's it's 667 00:25:19,070 --> 00:25:17,159 representing a phenomenology that is 668 00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:19,080 that is really showing up in our world 669 00:25:23,210 --> 00:25:21,780 even if it confounds some of our current 670 00:25:26,029 --> 00:25:23,220 understandings and so there's a lot of 671 00:25:27,950 --> 00:25:26,039 academics that are very eager now to 672 00:25:29,870 --> 00:25:27,960 actually look into this and we do need 673 00:25:32,330 --> 00:25:29,880 to have a multi-disciplinary kind of 674 00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:32,340 approach here because this is not 675 00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:35,279 something that's just on the edges of 676 00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:36,360 what we already understand it's 677 00:25:40,669 --> 00:25:38,159 something that really I think eclipses 678 00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,679 our our worldview altogether I think is 679 00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:42,720 what what might be in play here 680 00:25:47,330 --> 00:25:45,120 so we definitely want to engage these 681 00:25:48,890 --> 00:25:47,340 different kinds of disciplines together 682 00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:48,900 to try and figure out what's going on 683 00:25:52,970 --> 00:25:50,820 here so you're absolutely right that 684 00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:52,980 that in itself is a very positive turn 685 00:25:57,169 --> 00:25:55,080 that for those of us who are intimately 686 00:25:59,390 --> 00:25:57,179 familiar we can kind of lose the force 687 00:26:01,130 --> 00:25:59,400 for the trees sometimes and not realize 688 00:26:04,010 --> 00:26:01,140 that actually sure enough this is 689 00:26:06,950 --> 00:26:04,020 happening there is much more of a 690 00:26:09,049 --> 00:26:06,960 mainstream understanding that this is 691 00:26:11,930 --> 00:26:09,059 something right that that even if we 692 00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:11,940 think it's um again not what the usual 693 00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:15,000 ufology folks would call it something is 694 00:26:19,370 --> 00:26:17,279 going on that's worth looking into and I 695 00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:19,380 think another piece I want to introduce 696 00:26:24,110 --> 00:26:22,080 is the notion that 697 00:26:26,450 --> 00:26:24,120 if the secret keepers have information 698 00:26:29,289 --> 00:26:26,460 that they plan to release to the public 699 00:26:32,269 --> 00:26:29,299 then all of these steps are actually 700 00:26:35,450 --> 00:26:32,279 steps towards an ultimate goal right 701 00:26:37,730 --> 00:26:35,460 that by normalizing this topic right by 702 00:26:39,169 --> 00:26:37,740 making it so the average American has 703 00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:39,179 heard about these topics they've heard 704 00:26:43,070 --> 00:26:40,799 the word phenomenon right they've 705 00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:43,080 they've heard the word anomalous many 706 00:26:46,610 --> 00:26:45,360 more times this year than they ever have 707 00:26:49,430 --> 00:26:46,620 in history right we're talking about 708 00:26:51,169 --> 00:26:49,440 President Senators right Congress people 709 00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:51,179 coming forward in and using this 710 00:26:57,710 --> 00:26:54,179 terminology which is another kind of NLP 711 00:26:59,630 --> 00:26:57,720 approach because that puts a little hook 712 00:27:02,510 --> 00:26:59,640 in someone's brain the average person 713 00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:02,520 right that that this is a thing so that 714 00:27:06,289 --> 00:27:04,559 later on when Revelations do come 715 00:27:07,850 --> 00:27:06,299 forward there's a place to put that 716 00:27:09,890 --> 00:27:07,860 Revelation you now have a hook you can 717 00:27:11,870 --> 00:27:09,900 hang it on so there's numerous reasons 718 00:27:16,370 --> 00:27:11,880 why we can be encouraged by that yeah 719 00:27:20,210 --> 00:27:16,380 100 uh as that culture uh of normalcy 720 00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:20,220 increases that sphere widens uh it just 721 00:27:25,130 --> 00:27:21,840 gets it compounds there's a compounding 722 00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:25,140 of effect of that normalization it 723 00:27:31,070 --> 00:27:27,840 becomes then strange if you don't report 724 00:27:32,810 --> 00:27:31,080 it if you are a pilot and you're out on 725 00:27:34,490 --> 00:27:32,820 a military operation and you see 726 00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:34,500 something and you report it and that 727 00:27:40,130 --> 00:27:37,440 that something was also tracked or 728 00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:40,140 observed on another sensor technology 729 00:27:44,390 --> 00:27:42,960 but that operator didn't report it you 730 00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:44,400 could see how they would be in the hot 731 00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:47,279 seat by not raising the issue that the 732 00:27:50,930 --> 00:27:49,320 pilot saw you know so because we you 733 00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:50,940 know clearly need everybody on the same 734 00:27:56,090 --> 00:27:53,039 page we have folks you know not 735 00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:56,100 reporting things due to stigma so it's a 736 00:28:01,549 --> 00:27:58,799 it's a huge deal and very exciting I 737 00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:01,559 think for uh where we are headed with 738 00:28:06,110 --> 00:28:04,320 the topic overall it's shaping up to be 739 00:28:07,490 --> 00:28:06,120 quite a big year now there are some 740 00:28:08,750 --> 00:28:07,500 other things that were interesting in 741 00:28:09,890 --> 00:28:08,760 that hearing that I know we want to 742 00:28:13,669 --> 00:28:09,900 touch on 743 00:28:15,049 --> 00:28:13,679 one was regarding the whistleblowers we 744 00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:15,059 all have heard about the Whistleblower 745 00:28:19,610 --> 00:28:17,039 protections that were introduced in the 746 00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:19,620 legislation and that exchange was fairly 747 00:28:24,769 --> 00:28:22,260 interesting uh for a couple of reasons 748 00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:24,779 one is that the that there were about a 749 00:28:29,210 --> 00:28:26,880 two dozen whistleblowers that the office 750 00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:29,220 had interviewed and from what we've 751 00:28:33,769 --> 00:28:31,440 heard uh many of those interviews are 752 00:28:35,690 --> 00:28:33,779 quite lengthy uh at least a couple of 753 00:28:38,690 --> 00:28:35,700 hours so they're spending some good time 754 00:28:41,630 --> 00:28:38,700 with these individuals but also 755 00:28:43,789 --> 00:28:41,640 interestingly uh um it sounded as if 756 00:28:46,490 --> 00:28:43,799 that the office itself isn't actually 757 00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:46,500 looking for them uh doesn't have a 758 00:28:52,730 --> 00:28:49,279 process uh stood up just yet in order to 759 00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:52,740 give folks a an access point a portal by 760 00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:54,480 which if you are a whistleblower you can 761 00:28:57,649 --> 00:28:56,159 connect with them and instead all of 762 00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:57,659 those whistleblowers were referred to 763 00:29:03,169 --> 00:29:00,720 the office by the the Senate uh the 764 00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:03,179 senators or their staffers so that was 765 00:29:07,549 --> 00:29:05,520 pretty interesting and uh you know I 766 00:29:09,890 --> 00:29:07,559 think so you could even argue concerning 767 00:29:13,250 --> 00:29:09,900 uh that we're still kind of waiting for 768 00:29:15,169 --> 00:29:13,260 for that aspect of this entire process 769 00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:15,179 to be stood up uh two dozen 770 00:29:20,090 --> 00:29:17,760 whistleblowers feels significant to me 771 00:29:22,370 --> 00:29:20,100 uh and the question naturally follows 772 00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:22,380 which by the way wasn't asked uh well 773 00:29:25,549 --> 00:29:23,760 can you give us this little sample of 774 00:29:27,710 --> 00:29:25,559 what they were whistleblowing about you 775 00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:27,720 know what are we talking about here 776 00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:28,799 um and you know obviously that's 777 00:29:32,690 --> 00:29:30,240 probably not going to be discussed with 778 00:29:33,889 --> 00:29:32,700 open hearing but an example of a 779 00:29:36,350 --> 00:29:33,899 question that I think would be on the 780 00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:36,360 minds of many folks watching that 781 00:29:41,149 --> 00:29:38,240 Exchange 782 00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:41,159 indeed and I would just offer my usual 783 00:29:45,230 --> 00:29:42,960 commentary here that what I've heard is 784 00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:45,240 that some of what's been testified to by 785 00:29:49,490 --> 00:29:46,919 those whistleblowers is is quite 786 00:29:52,010 --> 00:29:49,500 extraordinary and uh the kind of 787 00:29:53,210 --> 00:29:52,020 information that really should uh shake 788 00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:53,220 this loose in the way it hasn't been 789 00:29:56,330 --> 00:29:55,440 before I would suggest but to your point 790 00:29:57,950 --> 00:29:56,340 about 791 00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:57,960 standing up some sort of public 792 00:30:02,930 --> 00:30:01,200 interface that makes it easy right for 793 00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:02,940 for potential whistleblowers to either 794 00:30:07,310 --> 00:30:05,039 have a 1 800 number they can call or a 795 00:30:09,049 --> 00:30:07,320 website they can contact people through 796 00:30:10,730 --> 00:30:09,059 you know we learned that there actually 797 00:30:12,169 --> 00:30:10,740 isn't even a website yet right and and 798 00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:12,179 you and I talked about how it doesn't 799 00:30:16,130 --> 00:30:14,159 take long to throw up a basic website 800 00:30:18,769 --> 00:30:16,140 where you could at least channel the 801 00:30:20,750 --> 00:30:18,779 contact right so that that raises 802 00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:20,760 questions about how much is this really 803 00:30:25,490 --> 00:30:22,559 a good faith effort I think that's a 804 00:30:27,710 --> 00:30:25,500 fair criticism some people have raised 805 00:30:30,169 --> 00:30:27,720 and then Christopher sharp of The 806 00:30:32,810 --> 00:30:30,179 Liberation times uh tweeted this comment 807 00:30:34,669 --> 00:30:32,820 quote The Daily Record has learned from 808 00:30:37,130 --> 00:30:34,679 people familiar with the matter but not 809 00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:37,140 authorized to discuss it publicly that 810 00:30:40,909 --> 00:30:39,600 the arrow is asking whistleblowers to 811 00:30:43,430 --> 00:30:40,919 pay for their own travel and 812 00:30:45,529 --> 00:30:43,440 accommodations to give testimony in 813 00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:45,539 Washington DC unquote what do you think 814 00:30:48,409 --> 00:30:46,799 about that 815 00:30:50,210 --> 00:30:48,419 well I mean I would at least want a per 816 00:30:52,909 --> 00:30:50,220 diem if I was having to get out there 817 00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:52,919 and spill the beans on a black budget 818 00:30:57,529 --> 00:30:54,720 sap 819 00:31:00,110 --> 00:30:57,539 um yeah I mean it's uh it's kind of 820 00:31:02,810 --> 00:31:00,120 Bonkers and I I heard as well that there 821 00:31:05,269 --> 00:31:02,820 was one incident where a testimony was 822 00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:05,279 taken from a whistleblower essentially 823 00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:08,760 just on an open unsecured line uh which 824 00:31:12,110 --> 00:31:10,559 it doesn't sound like it would be the 825 00:31:15,710 --> 00:31:12,120 way you would want to collect that kind 826 00:31:17,510 --> 00:31:15,720 of sensitive information at all so uh 827 00:31:20,269 --> 00:31:17,520 definitely have some concerns it sounds 828 00:31:21,649 --> 00:31:20,279 as if uh even that and we talked about 829 00:31:23,450 --> 00:31:21,659 this off the air so I want to make sure 830 00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:23,460 we touch on this that that you know he 831 00:31:27,889 --> 00:31:26,159 he was very thankful to the the Senators 832 00:31:29,330 --> 00:31:27,899 for referring those whistleblowers to 833 00:31:31,610 --> 00:31:29,340 him but that's exactly what you would 834 00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:31,620 say uh so that you're not gonna get like 835 00:31:35,870 --> 00:31:33,840 the wrath of God coming down on you uh 836 00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:35,880 if you if you you know aren't open to 837 00:31:39,230 --> 00:31:37,440 talking to the folks that have referred 838 00:31:41,090 --> 00:31:39,240 in your direction 839 00:31:43,130 --> 00:31:41,100 um so and again going back to that 840 00:31:44,930 --> 00:31:43,140 corporate conversation we had earlier a 841 00:31:47,210 --> 00:31:44,940 lot of us have experiences like that 842 00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:47,220 where we're we're sort of uh you know 843 00:31:51,649 --> 00:31:49,440 we're performing as if uh we're really 844 00:31:54,169 --> 00:31:51,659 grateful for this opportunity or we're 845 00:31:56,330 --> 00:31:54,179 thankful for this uh you know feedback 846 00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:56,340 or whatever it is what we're secretly 847 00:31:59,389 --> 00:31:57,840 we're just like well you know leave me 848 00:32:00,769 --> 00:31:59,399 alone I don't want to have to deal with 849 00:32:02,090 --> 00:32:00,779 this 850 00:32:04,669 --> 00:32:02,100 um you know to just get out of my 851 00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:04,679 kitchen so to speak so 852 00:32:09,230 --> 00:32:07,679 um yeah it's uh it's not great 853 00:32:12,289 --> 00:32:09,240 um the other part about that exchange 854 00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:12,299 was apparently that a plan had been 855 00:32:17,810 --> 00:32:16,559 submitted uh to uh his uh superiors in 856 00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:17,820 OS 857 00:32:20,870 --> 00:32:19,260 ousdi 858 00:32:23,090 --> 00:32:20,880 and I believe the plant had been 859 00:32:24,889 --> 00:32:23,100 submitted in December so we're basically 860 00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:24,899 like four months down the road without 861 00:32:30,769 --> 00:32:28,080 any kind of uh you know approval of that 862 00:32:33,289 --> 00:32:30,779 recommended uh plan of action there I 863 00:32:35,630 --> 00:32:33,299 mean the pace is absolutely infuriating 864 00:32:40,610 --> 00:32:35,640 if we're gonna take this uh seriously 865 00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:40,620 right uh so yeah it's uh it's not great 866 00:32:44,930 --> 00:32:42,480 um obviously I would hope everybody has 867 00:32:48,590 --> 00:32:44,940 lots of questions around the that entire 868 00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:48,600 Enterprise right I mean for example just 869 00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:51,840 an another one here right if you if you 870 00:32:56,269 --> 00:32:54,000 have whistleblowers at all coming from 871 00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,279 within your organization from within the 872 00:33:00,590 --> 00:32:58,559 government and the agencies that are 873 00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:00,600 supporting the institution 874 00:33:05,570 --> 00:33:02,640 that should tell you something in and of 875 00:33:08,990 --> 00:33:05,580 itself that this is not just prosaic 876 00:33:11,570 --> 00:33:09,000 activity happening in our skies right 877 00:33:13,549 --> 00:33:11,580 because why why are they why do they 878 00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:13,559 even exist why why would they need to 879 00:33:16,669 --> 00:33:14,880 come forward why would they need to feel 880 00:33:18,049 --> 00:33:16,679 like they needed those those protections 881 00:33:21,169 --> 00:33:18,059 well because there is something 882 00:33:23,210 --> 00:33:21,179 happening and you know it's not just uh 883 00:33:25,730 --> 00:33:23,220 black us technology because if it were 884 00:33:28,130 --> 00:33:25,740 just black us technology that would be 885 00:33:31,549 --> 00:33:28,140 kept fairly secret for the good of the 886 00:33:35,330 --> 00:33:31,559 State uh so it goes beyond just that as 887 00:33:37,789 --> 00:33:35,340 a as a base uh you know correct criteria 888 00:33:39,950 --> 00:33:37,799 indeed and just to speak again about the 889 00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:39,960 whistleblowers and the kind of testimony 890 00:33:43,850 --> 00:33:41,519 you know what we're hearing is that the 891 00:33:46,490 --> 00:33:43,860 testimony has to do with Legacy crash 892 00:33:48,049 --> 00:33:46,500 retrieval programs so of course if 893 00:33:49,250 --> 00:33:48,059 that's the case that completely blows 894 00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:49,260 out of the water 895 00:33:52,850 --> 00:33:50,880 just this notion of there may be 896 00:33:55,730 --> 00:33:52,860 anomalous things in our skies right and 897 00:33:57,889 --> 00:33:55,740 by the way uh can you give the full uh 898 00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:57,899 the full meaning of the of the acronym 899 00:34:04,570 --> 00:34:01,440 Arrow uh the on domain 900 00:34:09,169 --> 00:34:07,190 solution resolution office thank you 901 00:34:10,730 --> 00:34:09,179 thank you though the archives right so 902 00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:10,740 the reason why it's all domain is 903 00:34:13,849 --> 00:34:12,240 because there's this recognition that 904 00:34:16,250 --> 00:34:13,859 it's not just in the sky necessarily 905 00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:16,260 right we see these things going into the 906 00:34:20,089 --> 00:34:18,240 ocean right coming out of lakes we see 907 00:34:22,129 --> 00:34:20,099 them reportedly even 908 00:34:24,530 --> 00:34:22,139 emerging from Solid Rock and that kind 909 00:34:25,970 --> 00:34:24,540 of thing right so this is this is an 910 00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:25,980 important shift right this is saying 911 00:34:31,129 --> 00:34:28,399 that you know initially people were 912 00:34:33,369 --> 00:34:31,139 skeptical when the government went from 913 00:34:36,050 --> 00:34:33,379 UFO to UAP which was initially 914 00:34:38,030 --> 00:34:36,060 unidentified aerial phenomena right now 915 00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:38,040 it's even moved further to unidentified 916 00:34:41,629 --> 00:34:40,320 anomalous phenomena again the point 917 00:34:43,970 --> 00:34:41,639 being that 918 00:34:46,010 --> 00:34:43,980 it's an acknowledgment that what we are 919 00:34:48,169 --> 00:34:46,020 having reported is more than just 920 00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:48,179 objects in the sky it can be something 921 00:34:51,649 --> 00:34:50,399 that manifests in your home that in 922 00:34:53,629 --> 00:34:51,659 other circles might be considered 923 00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:53,639 Poltergeist kind of activity right it 924 00:34:59,870 --> 00:34:56,399 can be uh something again that that just 925 00:35:01,490 --> 00:34:59,880 seems to not like trans medium Vehicles 926 00:35:03,470 --> 00:35:01,500 right meaning that they are able to move 927 00:35:08,030 --> 00:35:03,480 into different kinds of mediums like 928 00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:08,040 space to the sky to the ocean right 929 00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:10,200 um so that that's that's really telling 930 00:35:13,130 --> 00:35:11,520 and I think that's a good thing that 931 00:35:15,170 --> 00:35:13,140 that that's happened 932 00:35:16,670 --> 00:35:15,180 but in terms of these crash retrievals 933 00:35:18,530 --> 00:35:16,680 the notion is that it's not just things 934 00:35:23,510 --> 00:35:18,540 being observed that seem to behave 935 00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:23,520 anonymously are anomalously but that we 936 00:35:28,310 --> 00:35:26,400 actually have perhaps retrieved some 937 00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:28,320 vehicles that have either crashed or 938 00:35:32,030 --> 00:35:30,000 landed right there's the whole question 939 00:35:34,190 --> 00:35:32,040 there how does that happen but 940 00:35:36,829 --> 00:35:34,200 supposedly that has happened allegedly 941 00:35:38,750 --> 00:35:36,839 right and that there's been reverse 942 00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:38,760 engineering or at least attempts of that 943 00:35:43,490 --> 00:35:40,800 right which gets into all the Bob Lazar 944 00:35:45,589 --> 00:35:43,500 kind of testimony and whatnot 945 00:35:48,290 --> 00:35:45,599 um Colonel Corso talked about in his 946 00:35:50,450 --> 00:35:48,300 book The Day After Roswell that he was 947 00:35:53,089 --> 00:35:50,460 in charge of an office that actually was 948 00:35:54,829 --> 00:35:53,099 tasked with taking some of the materials 949 00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:54,839 The Meta materials and whatnot that were 950 00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:56,880 recovered from some of these crashes and 951 00:36:01,730 --> 00:35:59,040 passing it on to Leading U.S industry 952 00:36:03,410 --> 00:36:01,740 that would give leading U.S industry uh 953 00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:03,420 you know a leg up on the rest of the 954 00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:05,520 competition around the world now again 955 00:36:09,950 --> 00:36:06,960 that's alleged we don't know that for 956 00:36:11,630 --> 00:36:09,960 sure but the point being that just to 957 00:36:13,849 --> 00:36:11,640 remind people that there's much more 958 00:36:15,950 --> 00:36:13,859 going on behind the scenes than what 959 00:36:17,329 --> 00:36:15,960 we're seeing talked about in these these 960 00:36:18,829 --> 00:36:17,339 public testimonies and these kind of 961 00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:18,839 hearings 962 00:36:23,810 --> 00:36:21,240 yeah undoubtedly 963 00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:23,820 um you know controlling the narrative is 964 00:36:28,730 --> 00:36:26,400 very important uh and um I think that 965 00:36:30,109 --> 00:36:28,740 was on full display uh during that 966 00:36:32,450 --> 00:36:30,119 hearing 967 00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:32,460 um and you know as you were unpacking 968 00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:35,040 things just there further I had this 969 00:36:38,690 --> 00:36:37,200 thought of you know if you had to sit 970 00:36:41,390 --> 00:36:38,700 down and kind of think about okay we 971 00:36:44,450 --> 00:36:41,400 need to get the public from point A over 972 00:36:45,530 --> 00:36:44,460 here to point Z you know how are we 973 00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:45,540 going to do that you can't just 974 00:36:49,550 --> 00:36:46,920 immediately like 975 00:36:52,130 --> 00:36:49,560 you know warp over to Z you have to go 976 00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:52,140 through this sort of phase process okay 977 00:36:56,210 --> 00:36:54,240 well let's start off with this now let's 978 00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:56,220 transition to this kind of language 979 00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:58,560 let's transition to that let's now make 980 00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:00,480 this a possibility you know let's 981 00:37:05,690 --> 00:37:02,640 amplify these certain voices of 982 00:37:08,210 --> 00:37:05,700 credibility you know you you have to do 983 00:37:10,910 --> 00:37:08,220 that like it's just to remind folks it's 984 00:37:13,490 --> 00:37:10,920 the responsible thing to do for a state 985 00:37:15,470 --> 00:37:13,500 and and we can rail on States all day 986 00:37:17,210 --> 00:37:15,480 long believe me I'm not a huge fan like 987 00:37:19,010 --> 00:37:17,220 it's uh you know they've all got their 988 00:37:21,890 --> 00:37:19,020 problems but when you're talking about 989 00:37:24,170 --> 00:37:21,900 the livelihood of you know billions of 990 00:37:25,730 --> 00:37:24,180 people uh millions and billions of 991 00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:25,740 people you know because of the world 992 00:37:30,710 --> 00:37:27,599 order you can't just you know 993 00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:30,720 willy-nilly uh you know rip the Band-Aid 994 00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:32,400 off and hope for the best you know it's 995 00:37:35,690 --> 00:37:33,839 just not it's not it's not something 996 00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:35,700 that you would want them to do and you 997 00:37:39,890 --> 00:37:37,200 wouldn't do it if you were in their 998 00:37:41,569 --> 00:37:39,900 position no reasonable rational person 999 00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:41,579 would 1000 00:37:45,829 --> 00:37:44,640 um so stepping down from that soapbox 1001 00:37:48,109 --> 00:37:45,839 there were some other interesting 1002 00:37:51,890 --> 00:37:48,119 exchanges that took place in the hearing 1003 00:37:54,530 --> 00:37:51,900 uh between gillibrand and Kirkpatrick uh 1004 00:37:56,510 --> 00:37:54,540 related to aspects of you know do you 1005 00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:56,520 have what you need Dr Kirkpatrick to 1006 00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,320 perform the the job that that you're 1007 00:38:02,569 --> 00:38:00,480 doing uh do you have enough money is the 1008 00:38:04,130 --> 00:38:02,579 reporting structure okay I always find 1009 00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:04,140 that question funny when you have two 1010 00:38:08,930 --> 00:38:06,480 bosses who were who are watching the 1011 00:38:10,970 --> 00:38:08,940 conversation take place live uh is your 1012 00:38:12,589 --> 00:38:10,980 reporting structure okay uh do you have 1013 00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:12,599 any critiques for the bosses that that 1014 00:38:16,370 --> 00:38:14,760 you have I mean no person their right 1015 00:38:18,170 --> 00:38:16,380 Minds would be like yeah I mean get me 1016 00:38:20,990 --> 00:38:18,180 out from under the thumb of Moultrie 1017 00:38:22,730 --> 00:38:21,000 over here uh he's driving me bonkers so 1018 00:38:25,130 --> 00:38:22,740 you know you have to watch uh 1019 00:38:27,470 --> 00:38:25,140 Kirkpatrick very gingerly and 1020 00:38:30,829 --> 00:38:27,480 diplomatically kind of tiptoe around 1021 00:38:32,750 --> 00:38:30,839 that entire conversation uh you know 1022 00:38:35,450 --> 00:38:32,760 notice what he is saying and also what 1023 00:38:38,210 --> 00:38:35,460 he's not saying and also gillibrand 1024 00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:38,220 playing that game as well right so you 1025 00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:40,800 she she is aware of what he is saying to 1026 00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:43,920 her by her her signaling back to him you 1027 00:38:47,870 --> 00:38:45,599 know I look forward to this or get back 1028 00:38:49,730 --> 00:38:47,880 to me on that or you know she she knows 1029 00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:49,740 what he is saying to her when he is 1030 00:38:53,569 --> 00:38:51,599 basically hinting that there are some 1031 00:38:55,550 --> 00:38:53,579 deficiencies in the reporting structure 1032 00:38:57,890 --> 00:38:55,560 there are some deficiencies in the 1033 00:39:00,050 --> 00:38:57,900 authority of the office itself to 1034 00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:00,060 collect the information that it requires 1035 00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:02,400 uh he's not going to you know hang them 1036 00:39:07,370 --> 00:39:05,280 out to dry publicly but he he absolutely 1037 00:39:09,530 --> 00:39:07,380 hinted that there were some issues there 1038 00:39:10,730 --> 00:39:09,540 do you want to touch on that like what 1039 00:39:13,730 --> 00:39:10,740 do you think are some of the friction 1040 00:39:15,410 --> 00:39:13,740 points that the office is encountering 1041 00:39:16,910 --> 00:39:15,420 well the first thing I would say is that 1042 00:39:18,530 --> 00:39:16,920 yeah what you speak to there is 1043 00:39:20,329 --> 00:39:18,540 political theater right where where 1044 00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:20,339 you're at least going through the 1045 00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:21,839 motions and saying the things you need 1046 00:39:26,270 --> 00:39:23,700 to say so if you're in 1047 00:39:27,950 --> 00:39:26,280 um gillibrands uh seat then you need to 1048 00:39:30,410 --> 00:39:27,960 ask do you have everything you need you 1049 00:39:33,230 --> 00:39:30,420 know are we equipping you with what you 1050 00:39:34,970 --> 00:39:33,240 need to do your job she needs to have 1051 00:39:37,069 --> 00:39:34,980 said that right to tick off on her 1052 00:39:40,010 --> 00:39:37,079 checklist that I I I did what I was 1053 00:39:42,530 --> 00:39:40,020 supposed to and he like you say either 1054 00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:42,540 needs to say yes or if he doesn't say 1055 00:39:45,770 --> 00:39:44,160 yes and he's the creatively phrase it in 1056 00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:45,780 such a way that he doesn't make it sound 1057 00:39:50,329 --> 00:39:48,480 like he's throwing his bosses under the 1058 00:39:51,710 --> 00:39:50,339 bus so to speak right 1059 00:39:53,390 --> 00:39:51,720 um but that's that's political theater 1060 00:39:54,829 --> 00:39:53,400 to some degree 1061 00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:54,839 um another thing I would bring up too is 1062 00:39:58,130 --> 00:39:55,680 that 1063 00:40:01,310 --> 00:39:58,140 some people are frustrated in the UFO 1064 00:40:02,870 --> 00:40:01,320 Community when after the fact gillibrand 1065 00:40:04,670 --> 00:40:02,880 seems to talk about this is important 1066 00:40:07,370 --> 00:40:04,680 because we need to protect our airspace 1067 00:40:09,109 --> 00:40:07,380 and if there's foreign adversaries that 1068 00:40:11,390 --> 00:40:09,119 have made leaps in technology we need to 1069 00:40:13,089 --> 00:40:11,400 understand that because that presents a 1070 00:40:15,050 --> 00:40:13,099 threat for the future 1071 00:40:16,250 --> 00:40:15,060 sovereignty of the United States that 1072 00:40:18,829 --> 00:40:16,260 kind of thing I understand some people 1073 00:40:20,510 --> 00:40:18,839 get frustrated by that some people in 1074 00:40:22,250 --> 00:40:20,520 the UFO crowd also think that sounds 1075 00:40:25,250 --> 00:40:22,260 like a threat narrative quote unquote 1076 00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:25,260 right but I think you think back to what 1077 00:40:30,170 --> 00:40:27,599 Christopher melon and Luis Elizondo have 1078 00:40:32,569 --> 00:40:30,180 tried to now the the approach they've 1079 00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:32,579 taken is to understand who you're 1080 00:40:37,430 --> 00:40:34,560 talking to to understand your audience 1081 00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:37,440 right read the room as they say right so 1082 00:40:42,829 --> 00:40:40,380 if you're speaking to Congress people 1083 00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:42,839 right who's whose job is to represent 1084 00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:44,400 the United States and protect the 1085 00:40:49,790 --> 00:40:46,560 sovereignty of the United States then 1086 00:40:51,170 --> 00:40:49,800 you can't just or you could try to 1087 00:40:52,310 --> 00:40:51,180 tickle their Fancy by saying there's 1088 00:40:53,810 --> 00:40:52,320 some interesting things in the sky 1089 00:40:56,270 --> 00:40:53,820 aren't you curious 1090 00:40:59,089 --> 00:40:56,280 but that's not gonna behoove them to 1091 00:41:00,770 --> 00:40:59,099 take action like saying there are some 1092 00:41:03,230 --> 00:41:00,780 anomalous things that are in the sky 1093 00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:03,240 that are clearly in our physical reality 1094 00:41:07,970 --> 00:41:06,240 that we're not able to prevent from 1095 00:41:10,490 --> 00:41:07,980 coming in they're kind of you know with 1096 00:41:13,310 --> 00:41:10,500 impunity passing through U.S airspace 1097 00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:13,320 when you say that then both the military 1098 00:41:18,050 --> 00:41:15,359 and the Congressional leaders have to 1099 00:41:19,730 --> 00:41:18,060 say as part of their job we must respond 1100 00:41:21,770 --> 00:41:19,740 to this right we must 1101 00:41:23,630 --> 00:41:21,780 try to account for what these things are 1102 00:41:26,210 --> 00:41:23,640 so that kicks the whole process into 1103 00:41:28,730 --> 00:41:26,220 gear so even if you know that it's not 1104 00:41:30,829 --> 00:41:28,740 likely for an adversary in fact if you 1105 00:41:33,050 --> 00:41:30,839 know darn well it's not for an aperture 1106 00:41:34,970 --> 00:41:33,060 because you've already seen data that 1107 00:41:36,950 --> 00:41:34,980 convinces you of that fact you still 1108 00:41:38,569 --> 00:41:36,960 need to behoove them to start going 1109 00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,579 through the process themselves of 1110 00:41:42,290 --> 00:41:40,560 determining whether that's the case and 1111 00:41:44,450 --> 00:41:42,300 if it's not then you get to the second 1112 00:41:46,670 --> 00:41:44,460 level question well if it's not China or 1113 00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:46,680 Russia or Iran or whatever who is it 1114 00:41:51,050 --> 00:41:49,440 what is it right is it even human those 1115 00:41:52,970 --> 00:41:51,060 are questions we get to 1116 00:41:55,130 --> 00:41:52,980 but this is part of the political feeder 1117 00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:55,140 that you need to incorporate if you're 1118 00:41:59,450 --> 00:41:57,119 going to get to these answers through a 1119 00:42:01,370 --> 00:41:59,460 governmental kind of stream yeah 1120 00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:01,380 absolutely 1121 00:42:03,530 --> 00:42:02,400 um 1122 00:42:06,170 --> 00:42:03,540 well let's talk about one of those 1123 00:42:09,230 --> 00:42:06,180 aspects as well uh and that was this 1124 00:42:12,170 --> 00:42:09,240 conversation around the title 10 versus 1125 00:42:15,290 --> 00:42:12,180 title 50 Authority and I want to read a 1126 00:42:17,810 --> 00:42:15,300 tweet from Tim McMillan on this issue 1127 00:42:19,550 --> 00:42:17,820 which I thought was quite helpful 1128 00:42:22,490 --> 00:42:19,560 um so kind of pick up mid tweet here but 1129 00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:22,500 basically uh you know he said that the 1130 00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:24,240 Revelation the arrow doesn't have title 1131 00:42:28,370 --> 00:42:25,920 50 Authority and what this means is that 1132 00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:28,380 Arrow has limited access to title 50 1133 00:42:33,470 --> 00:42:31,200 information which includes covert action 1134 00:42:37,010 --> 00:42:33,480 and most intelligence missions carried 1135 00:42:42,170 --> 00:42:37,020 out by agencies like the CIA 1136 00:42:44,089 --> 00:42:42,180 nro NGA or NSA by saying it would be 1137 00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,099 nice to have title 50 Authority for 1138 00:42:49,250 --> 00:42:46,079 Patrick was taking a huge shot across 1139 00:42:52,490 --> 00:42:49,260 the bow at title 50 agencies that likely 1140 00:42:55,370 --> 00:42:52,500 haven't been playing ball with arrow in 1141 00:42:57,410 --> 00:42:55,380 essence Arrow may only have access to 20 1142 00:42:58,569 --> 00:42:57,420 percent of the US's full collection of 1143 00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:58,579 potential 1144 00:43:01,730 --> 00:43:00,720 that's you know quite a statement 1145 00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:01,740 obviously there's a little bit of 1146 00:43:06,589 --> 00:43:04,079 speculation in that statement as well 1147 00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:06,599 but I think the bottom line being if you 1148 00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:08,760 don't have the right tickets you can't 1149 00:43:13,309 --> 00:43:11,280 open the right doors to get the 1150 00:43:16,430 --> 00:43:13,319 information that you might need to 1151 00:43:19,790 --> 00:43:16,440 adequately resolve some of these instant 1152 00:43:22,670 --> 00:43:19,800 instances and reports uh you know that 1153 00:43:23,230 --> 00:43:22,680 that to me sounds very concerning 1154 00:43:25,130 --> 00:43:23,240 um 1155 00:43:27,710 --> 00:43:25,140 particularly if you're trying to leave 1156 00:43:30,050 --> 00:43:27,720 no stone unturned here uh you can't 1157 00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:30,060 unturn most of the stones that happen to 1158 00:43:36,050 --> 00:43:32,880 be you know in your in your garden 1159 00:43:38,210 --> 00:43:36,060 indeed I think back to to 911 and then 1160 00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:38,220 afterwards when there's this recognition 1161 00:43:41,630 --> 00:43:40,260 that the different agencies were not 1162 00:43:43,490 --> 00:43:41,640 only taught not talking to each other 1163 00:43:44,510 --> 00:43:43,500 sometimes the different intelligence 1164 00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:44,520 agencies 1165 00:43:48,290 --> 00:43:47,040 the CIA and the FBI and whatnot but 1166 00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:48,300 sometimes there was even kind of this 1167 00:43:53,410 --> 00:43:50,160 adversarial kind of relationship between 1168 00:43:55,970 --> 00:43:53,420 them and that that had perhaps let some 1169 00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:55,980 data squeak through that could have been 1170 00:43:59,569 --> 00:43:57,599 game changing right 1171 00:44:02,329 --> 00:43:59,579 could have perhaps prevented 911 from 1172 00:44:04,370 --> 00:44:02,339 happening so after that the Department 1173 00:44:07,010 --> 00:44:04,380 of Homeland Security was established 1174 00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:07,020 right to try to pull together these 1175 00:44:11,930 --> 00:44:10,319 different agencies and collate data so 1176 00:44:14,750 --> 00:44:11,940 that you would have that no stone 1177 00:44:16,430 --> 00:44:14,760 unturned kind of response and I remember 1178 00:44:18,790 --> 00:44:16,440 Christopher Mellon saying that that's 1179 00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:18,800 kind of what we need here up until now 1180 00:44:23,630 --> 00:44:21,359 these different agencies and even within 1181 00:44:26,510 --> 00:44:23,640 one agency you have siled sections right 1182 00:44:28,210 --> 00:44:26,520 with a need to know that's very limited 1183 00:44:31,069 --> 00:44:28,220 and as we've talked about before 1184 00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:31,079 allegedly again much of this has been 1185 00:44:35,390 --> 00:44:33,839 moved into private hands right into 1186 00:44:38,809 --> 00:44:35,400 private corporations Aerospace 1187 00:44:41,630 --> 00:44:38,819 corporations partly so you can again 1188 00:44:43,609 --> 00:44:41,640 allegedly hide some of this Cutting Edge 1189 00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:43,619 technology in the terms of Crash 1190 00:44:49,010 --> 00:44:46,079 retrievals because you can have a 1191 00:44:50,870 --> 00:44:49,020 protected under uh what's the word I'm 1192 00:44:52,430 --> 00:44:50,880 looking for here intellectual property 1193 00:44:54,530 --> 00:44:52,440 basically right you can you can claim 1194 00:44:56,930 --> 00:44:54,540 that this doesn't this doesn't apply for 1195 00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:56,940 foia right that's that's key right so 1196 00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:58,560 there's ways that you can get around 1197 00:45:03,309 --> 00:45:01,440 these kind of uh declarations that were 1198 00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:03,319 going to make government activity 1199 00:45:07,130 --> 00:45:05,520 transparent to people right one of the 1200 00:45:09,290 --> 00:45:07,140 ways you can avoid that is by putting it 1201 00:45:11,569 --> 00:45:09,300 into move it into a private Corporation 1202 00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:11,579 they have certain safeguards because of 1203 00:45:17,089 --> 00:45:14,640 intellectual property law and whatnot 1204 00:45:19,670 --> 00:45:17,099 but all it is to say 1205 00:45:21,650 --> 00:45:19,680 I think like you say 1206 00:45:23,270 --> 00:45:21,660 what Kirkpatrick is getting at here is 1207 00:45:25,370 --> 00:45:23,280 that we still have that siloing of 1208 00:45:27,530 --> 00:45:25,380 information going on even within the 1209 00:45:29,870 --> 00:45:27,540 same agency someone who sits across me 1210 00:45:31,849 --> 00:45:29,880 might not know what you know right this 1211 00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:31,859 has been you know Jacques delay in his 1212 00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:33,839 most recent uh Journal talks about this 1213 00:45:37,790 --> 00:45:36,240 just how solid the information is and 1214 00:45:40,010 --> 00:45:37,800 how difficult it is to really understand 1215 00:45:41,569 --> 00:45:40,020 what's going on so yeah I think that 1216 00:45:43,250 --> 00:45:41,579 this is a fair point Kirkpatrick is 1217 00:45:45,470 --> 00:45:43,260 making is that if you really want me to 1218 00:45:46,910 --> 00:45:45,480 be the person that's looking at this 1219 00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:46,920 then we need more of a coordinated 1220 00:45:51,550 --> 00:45:49,200 effort and we're still a long way from 1221 00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:51,560 that I think is what he's getting at 1222 00:45:57,230 --> 00:45:54,000 and I think too it's worth pointing out 1223 00:46:00,290 --> 00:45:57,240 that our intelligence agencies 1224 00:46:04,670 --> 00:46:00,300 uh operate with a great deal of immunity 1225 00:46:07,250 --> 00:46:04,680 from both public and uh you know 1226 00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:07,260 official government scrutiny right and 1227 00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:08,400 there and there are some some of those 1228 00:46:13,250 --> 00:46:10,260 are good there are good reasons for some 1229 00:46:15,890 --> 00:46:13,260 of that uh you know we have a lot of 1230 00:46:17,809 --> 00:46:15,900 dirty laundry let's put it that way 1231 00:46:21,170 --> 00:46:17,819 um and so it makes sense that we don't 1232 00:46:24,349 --> 00:46:21,180 want to air all of that out uh not just 1233 00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:24,359 to our own people but to our adversaries 1234 00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:26,400 we want to be very careful about that 1235 00:46:31,490 --> 00:46:29,280 and so it's not a surprise that these 1236 00:46:34,609 --> 00:46:31,500 agencies are dragging their feet to this 1237 00:46:37,069 --> 00:46:34,619 conversation because there's no 1238 00:46:40,250 --> 00:46:37,079 incentive for them really to to do to do 1239 00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:40,260 so you know that like if if it comes out 1240 00:46:45,290 --> 00:46:42,720 later on down the road that uh you know 1241 00:46:47,329 --> 00:46:45,300 such and such agency you know withheld 1242 00:46:49,609 --> 00:46:47,339 some insane secret I mean what what are 1243 00:46:51,230 --> 00:46:49,619 the ramifications to that agency I don't 1244 00:46:53,569 --> 00:46:51,240 know that they're that severe right so 1245 00:46:56,210 --> 00:46:53,579 it's it's it's a kind of a slap on the 1246 00:46:58,370 --> 00:46:56,220 hand situation so it behooves them just 1247 00:47:00,770 --> 00:46:58,380 to kind of continue to play along and 1248 00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:00,780 and and and you know obfuscate or just 1249 00:47:04,250 --> 00:47:02,160 not even participate in the conversation 1250 00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:04,260 here I'm also thinking of the Air Force 1251 00:47:08,270 --> 00:47:06,240 which but I don't know the Air Force was 1252 00:47:10,490 --> 00:47:08,280 mentioned at all in the hearing uh but 1253 00:47:12,050 --> 00:47:10,500 there's certainly uh you know part of 1254 00:47:13,849 --> 00:47:12,060 this conversation but have been a very 1255 00:47:15,470 --> 00:47:13,859 quiet part of it 1256 00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:15,480 um and so you know it's it's very 1257 00:47:21,890 --> 00:47:18,720 interesting right I I see a lot of uh 1258 00:47:23,630 --> 00:47:21,900 cya happening in that hearing uh as you 1259 00:47:26,089 --> 00:47:23,640 said you know not only from the 1260 00:47:28,370 --> 00:47:26,099 politicians but from the office itself 1261 00:47:31,370 --> 00:47:28,380 uh making sure to say certain things 1262 00:47:33,470 --> 00:47:31,380 that that are on the record uh but but 1263 00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:33,480 we all know that by saying things on the 1264 00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:35,040 record even if we're very careful about 1265 00:47:40,670 --> 00:47:38,400 saying them uh we we have defined uh 1266 00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:40,680 that the position that we are making and 1267 00:47:44,750 --> 00:47:42,480 and that record can be referenced we can 1268 00:47:46,569 --> 00:47:44,760 look back and go well you told me in 1269 00:47:49,609 --> 00:47:46,579 this conversation that it wasn't 1270 00:47:52,910 --> 00:47:49,619 extraterrestrial and at that time you're 1271 00:47:56,089 --> 00:47:52,920 now telling me you also knew XYZ yet you 1272 00:47:58,010 --> 00:47:56,099 withheld that you know opinion so or you 1273 00:48:00,470 --> 00:47:58,020 you took us down a different path of 1274 00:48:02,809 --> 00:48:00,480 speculation so that that that really 1275 00:48:05,569 --> 00:48:02,819 creates some problems if you if you are 1276 00:48:06,770 --> 00:48:05,579 too restrictive in what is possible 1277 00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:06,780 um and I don't know maybe he did a 1278 00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:08,520 careful enough job here I think to kind 1279 00:48:13,130 --> 00:48:11,280 of protect him from uh you know kind of 1280 00:48:15,410 --> 00:48:13,140 uh the ramifications of the blowback 1281 00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:15,420 later on his words were very carefully 1282 00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:17,280 chosen uh where he could kind of be like 1283 00:48:21,530 --> 00:48:19,680 well you know I I what I said I still 1284 00:48:24,170 --> 00:48:21,540 stand by that at the time we didn't have 1285 00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:24,180 credible evidence and credible in that 1286 00:48:28,190 --> 00:48:25,440 case and the definition that I didn't 1287 00:48:30,170 --> 00:48:28,200 give you was in fact I needed uh you 1288 00:48:32,270 --> 00:48:30,180 know Neil deGrasse Tyson to say it was 1289 00:48:34,250 --> 00:48:32,280 an E.T you know something like like that 1290 00:48:36,650 --> 00:48:34,260 exactly that's that's the thing I mean 1291 00:48:38,589 --> 00:48:36,660 it can come down to a certain adjective 1292 00:48:40,970 --> 00:48:38,599 that's used to qualify a statement right 1293 00:48:42,530 --> 00:48:40,980 that that's all you need to protect 1294 00:48:44,690 --> 00:48:42,540 yourself sort of legally in these 1295 00:48:46,730 --> 00:48:44,700 situations right so credible evidence 1296 00:48:48,170 --> 00:48:46,740 right that that one qualifier there 1297 00:48:50,510 --> 00:48:48,180 right like you say 1298 00:48:52,190 --> 00:48:50,520 without defining that there's no way you 1299 00:48:54,050 --> 00:48:52,200 can hold his feet to the fire on that 1300 00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:54,060 because like you say he could have a 1301 00:48:57,050 --> 00:48:55,440 definition like you know if Neil 1302 00:48:59,089 --> 00:48:57,060 deGrasse Tyson would not be convinced by 1303 00:49:00,890 --> 00:48:59,099 this evidence now if Mick West would not 1304 00:49:03,410 --> 00:49:00,900 be convinced by this evidence then it's 1305 00:49:05,569 --> 00:49:03,420 not considered credible yet right and if 1306 00:49:07,790 --> 00:49:05,579 there's again if the Congressional panel 1307 00:49:09,890 --> 00:49:07,800 is not catching that and saying oh okay 1308 00:49:11,569 --> 00:49:09,900 he says so you said credible just for 1309 00:49:13,609 --> 00:49:11,579 the record can you establish what 1310 00:49:15,170 --> 00:49:13,619 determines what's credible and not right 1311 00:49:16,730 --> 00:49:15,180 that's the kind of thing where you could 1312 00:49:18,829 --> 00:49:16,740 actually then hold them to that but but 1313 00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:18,839 by letting him get away with that kind 1314 00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:20,400 of vague statement 1315 00:49:24,829 --> 00:49:22,319 um it gives him a lot of leeway in terms 1316 00:49:26,329 --> 00:49:24,839 of what comes up in the future again and 1317 00:49:27,890 --> 00:49:26,339 I think at this point the panel was 1318 00:49:29,690 --> 00:49:27,900 comfortable doing that but we're just 1319 00:49:33,230 --> 00:49:29,700 sort of trying to point out here 1320 00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:33,240 how much an NLP kind of situation is in 1321 00:49:38,089 --> 00:49:35,760 play here where the language used the 1322 00:49:40,670 --> 00:49:38,099 the qualifications used the lobbying 1323 00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:40,680 back forth of a political speak is is 1324 00:49:44,270 --> 00:49:42,720 designed to move this forward move the 1325 00:49:46,430 --> 00:49:44,280 ball down the field since Nathan 1326 00:49:48,290 --> 00:49:46,440 introduced a football analogy in the 1327 00:49:50,089 --> 00:49:48,300 last episode of no Fame we'll now go 1328 00:49:52,490 --> 00:49:50,099 forward with that this video football 1329 00:49:54,050 --> 00:49:52,500 down the field Without Really spilling 1330 00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:54,060 the beans fully right but that's kind of 1331 00:49:58,809 --> 00:49:55,920 what we can look at this is that it's 1332 00:50:01,490 --> 00:49:58,819 one more step in a process towards 1333 00:50:02,990 --> 00:50:01,500 warming the public up to what perhaps 1334 00:50:04,490 --> 00:50:03,000 might come in the future in terms of 1335 00:50:06,050 --> 00:50:04,500 Revelations 1336 00:50:08,329 --> 00:50:06,060 mm-hmm 1337 00:50:10,609 --> 00:50:08,339 yeah uh there were some also some 1338 00:50:12,770 --> 00:50:10,619 interesting things presented uh you know 1339 00:50:14,690 --> 00:50:12,780 get us a contrast it would be cool to 1340 00:50:17,569 --> 00:50:14,700 watch the the last the hearing before 1341 00:50:20,030 --> 00:50:17,579 this one like right next to this one and 1342 00:50:22,670 --> 00:50:20,040 and just sort of observe the contrast 1343 00:50:25,130 --> 00:50:22,680 between the two one notable contrast was 1344 00:50:28,190 --> 00:50:25,140 the very first video that was shown was 1345 00:50:30,309 --> 00:50:28,200 of a metallic sphere in the Middle East 1346 00:50:33,650 --> 00:50:30,319 I mean 1347 00:50:35,809 --> 00:50:33,660 what you know like is it it's either a 1348 00:50:38,210 --> 00:50:35,819 balloon or it's a it's a flying sphere 1349 00:50:41,450 --> 00:50:38,220 we don't know how right the Spheres 1350 00:50:42,890 --> 00:50:41,460 don't fly on their own volition uh and 1351 00:50:46,130 --> 00:50:42,900 they don't they're not aerodynamic and 1352 00:50:48,170 --> 00:50:46,140 then he at any rate so uh to kind of 1353 00:50:50,450 --> 00:50:48,180 lead with that one as a good example of 1354 00:50:53,809 --> 00:50:50,460 something that is still in that unknown 1355 00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:53,819 space in and of itself is I think pretty 1356 00:50:58,670 --> 00:50:56,400 pretty big uh you know maybe we're not 1357 00:51:00,410 --> 00:50:58,680 you know sort of giving it the Kudos 1358 00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:00,420 that it deserves to sort of put that 1359 00:51:06,190 --> 00:51:02,400 video out there and it was quite clear 1360 00:51:09,349 --> 00:51:06,200 as well and it it also mirrored the the 1361 00:51:11,809 --> 00:51:09,359 still images that we have seen from 1362 00:51:15,049 --> 00:51:11,819 Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp of the 1363 00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:15,059 mosul orb uh so we have two instances 1364 00:51:19,329 --> 00:51:17,280 here two separate instances here of of 1365 00:51:22,910 --> 00:51:19,339 flying metallic 1366 00:51:24,170 --> 00:51:22,920 spheres uh that you know to me they're 1367 00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:24,180 either balloons or they're 1368 00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:26,640 non-conventional Technologies right so 1369 00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:29,040 I'm not not sure what other bucket they 1370 00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:31,200 would fall into uh but what was your 1371 00:51:34,910 --> 00:51:33,660 take on that on that footage yeah I'm 1372 00:51:36,170 --> 00:51:34,920 glad you brought that up because that's 1373 00:51:38,210 --> 00:51:36,180 a fascinating 1374 00:51:39,770 --> 00:51:38,220 uh display again of of political theater 1375 00:51:41,210 --> 00:51:39,780 to some degree because I think he 1376 00:51:43,609 --> 00:51:41,220 accomplished a couple of things by 1377 00:51:45,410 --> 00:51:43,619 showing two videos right he showed one 1378 00:51:47,150 --> 00:51:45,420 that looked anomalous but they've been 1379 00:51:49,130 --> 00:51:47,160 able to figure out what it was and it 1380 00:51:51,589 --> 00:51:49,140 was prosaic after all then showed 1381 00:51:54,589 --> 00:51:51,599 another one that has not yet been 1382 00:51:57,170 --> 00:51:54,599 determined uh to be classified in one of 1383 00:51:58,609 --> 00:51:57,180 these prosaic forms right but first of 1384 00:52:01,549 --> 00:51:58,619 all want to point that out when you show 1385 00:52:03,530 --> 00:52:01,559 a video that to the naked eye to the 1386 00:52:05,329 --> 00:52:03,540 average person looks anomalous and then 1387 00:52:06,770 --> 00:52:05,339 you're able to show how you went through 1388 00:52:08,569 --> 00:52:06,780 a process to determine that actually 1389 00:52:10,609 --> 00:52:08,579 it's very explainable after all and it's 1390 00:52:12,349 --> 00:52:10,619 nothing nothing surprising it was just 1391 00:52:14,329 --> 00:52:12,359 an airplane or something right 1392 00:52:15,650 --> 00:52:14,339 and then you show the next one and say 1393 00:52:18,049 --> 00:52:15,660 this is an example of one that we're 1394 00:52:19,609 --> 00:52:18,059 still in the process of what you're what 1395 00:52:21,290 --> 00:52:19,619 you're suggesting what you're planting 1396 00:52:23,870 --> 00:52:21,300 in people's minds is that even though 1397 00:52:25,370 --> 00:52:23,880 these both look anomalous because the 1398 00:52:27,170 --> 00:52:25,380 first one went through a process and we 1399 00:52:28,849 --> 00:52:27,180 figured out what it was that's very 1400 00:52:30,829 --> 00:52:28,859 likely going to be the case he's not 1401 00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:30,839 saying that but it kind of is implied in 1402 00:52:34,970 --> 00:52:33,359 the in the presentation right but like 1403 00:52:36,710 --> 00:52:34,980 you say it's very interesting because at 1404 00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:36,720 first people thought oh is that Jeremy 1405 00:52:40,309 --> 00:52:39,119 corbell's mosul orb right but it turns 1406 00:52:43,069 --> 00:52:40,319 out it wasn't it's just very very 1407 00:52:45,470 --> 00:52:43,079 similar and it's interesting because 1408 00:52:46,609 --> 00:52:45,480 some people and Jeremy corbella have 1409 00:52:48,650 --> 00:52:46,619 talked but has talked about this along 1410 00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:48,660 with George Knapp that initially people 1411 00:52:53,829 --> 00:52:50,760 thought well there is like a vapor trail 1412 00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:53,839 or something right in that and then as 1413 00:52:59,089 --> 00:52:55,920 Kirkpatrick pointed out actually it 1414 00:53:02,270 --> 00:52:59,099 wasn't a vapor trail or exhaust plume it 1415 00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:02,280 was actually just a um an artifact of 1416 00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:03,660 the actual video right that it was 1417 00:53:07,370 --> 00:53:05,520 actually the image moving across the 1418 00:53:10,250 --> 00:53:07,380 object moving across the screen was 1419 00:53:11,809 --> 00:53:10,260 leaving an artifact behind of itself 1420 00:53:14,270 --> 00:53:11,819 kind of thing like a blur kind of thing 1421 00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:14,280 right so that was again I think really 1422 00:53:18,470 --> 00:53:16,800 helpful to to point out that he's doing 1423 00:53:20,329 --> 00:53:18,480 his job and determining it sure enough 1424 00:53:21,410 --> 00:53:20,339 this does not have an exhaust plume like 1425 00:53:23,510 --> 00:53:21,420 you would expect because like you 1426 00:53:25,549 --> 00:53:23,520 pointed out orbs don't tend to 1427 00:53:28,190 --> 00:53:25,559 especially if the if it is metal and it 1428 00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:28,200 kind of looks metallic then how is that 1429 00:53:32,450 --> 00:53:30,000 thing staying Aloft right 1430 00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:32,460 how is it propulsing right and you and I 1431 00:53:36,049 --> 00:53:33,599 talked about before we went on the air 1432 00:53:38,930 --> 00:53:36,059 it's interesting how there's statements 1433 00:53:40,790 --> 00:53:38,940 made around not observing any uh unknown 1434 00:53:42,890 --> 00:53:40,800 physics and that kind of thing right but 1435 00:53:45,290 --> 00:53:42,900 then we see a video of an orb that's 1436 00:53:47,870 --> 00:53:45,300 seemingly moving in at least initially 1437 00:53:50,450 --> 00:53:47,880 in a in a in a means that you can't 1438 00:53:52,430 --> 00:53:50,460 exactly explain according to at least 1439 00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:52,440 the naked eye according to the physics 1440 00:53:56,270 --> 00:53:54,240 we understand how it's staying Aloft we 1441 00:53:58,730 --> 00:53:56,280 don't see an exhaust plume there's no 1442 00:54:00,530 --> 00:53:58,740 wings right so so how is this thing 1443 00:54:02,750 --> 00:54:00,540 moving right like you say it could be a 1444 00:54:04,730 --> 00:54:02,760 balloon perhaps right but it's moving 1445 00:54:08,210 --> 00:54:04,740 pretty quickly for a balloon 1446 00:54:09,829 --> 00:54:08,220 um so these are these are interesting uh 1447 00:54:10,790 --> 00:54:09,839 points to make which reminds me of 1448 00:54:12,890 --> 00:54:10,800 another 1449 00:54:16,250 --> 00:54:12,900 a recent video that came out I'm sure 1450 00:54:18,109 --> 00:54:16,260 you saw this one where uh there's that 1451 00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:18,119 what kind of object the plane is flying 1452 00:54:21,650 --> 00:54:19,680 and an object comes flying over top of 1453 00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:21,660 the plane right now this is a good 1454 00:54:26,030 --> 00:54:23,760 example of I just want to remind people 1455 00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:26,040 that but that most of these things will 1456 00:54:30,890 --> 00:54:28,079 end up being prosaic right we're talking 1457 00:54:32,450 --> 00:54:30,900 about the unusual cases and on top of 1458 00:54:33,589 --> 00:54:32,460 that I think we have to allow for the 1459 00:54:37,250 --> 00:54:33,599 fact that 1460 00:54:39,290 --> 00:54:37,260 whatever is operating these vehicles I 1461 00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:39,300 think really has a lot to say about when 1462 00:54:43,730 --> 00:54:41,280 they will even be observed right I think 1463 00:54:45,710 --> 00:54:43,740 that in other words when we see them 1464 00:54:47,930 --> 00:54:45,720 especially captured in kind of like 1465 00:54:50,210 --> 00:54:47,940 military footage it's almost like it's 1466 00:54:51,650 --> 00:54:50,220 parading out there like George Knapp has 1467 00:54:52,490 --> 00:54:51,660 suggested that right that it's not like 1468 00:54:54,829 --> 00:54:52,500 it's 1469 00:54:56,930 --> 00:54:54,839 oh oh shoot they caught us they saw us 1470 00:54:59,690 --> 00:54:56,940 right it's actually no let's the the 1471 00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:59,700 naval groups are seeing like 30 of these 1472 00:55:02,690 --> 00:55:01,200 a day right with all sorts of different 1473 00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:02,700 shapes that's what's being reported 1474 00:55:06,770 --> 00:55:05,040 right by by the naval groups and 1475 00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:06,780 reported to people like Jeremy Corbell 1476 00:55:10,069 --> 00:55:08,160 and George Knapp so that doesn't sound 1477 00:55:12,230 --> 00:55:10,079 like something that's trying to hide it 1478 00:55:13,730 --> 00:55:12,240 sounds more like again we don't 1479 00:55:15,230 --> 00:55:13,740 understand the psychology necessarily 1480 00:55:17,329 --> 00:55:15,240 but at least the way we would think 1481 00:55:18,829 --> 00:55:17,339 about it it sounds almost like hey hey 1482 00:55:20,210 --> 00:55:18,839 here I am what do you think kind of 1483 00:55:22,609 --> 00:55:20,220 thing right so 1484 00:55:24,349 --> 00:55:22,619 uh these are interesting things to make 1485 00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:24,359 note of but but in that 1486 00:55:27,950 --> 00:55:25,920 example of that video that's been 1487 00:55:29,390 --> 00:55:27,960 floating out there now 1488 00:55:31,730 --> 00:55:29,400 um 1489 00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:31,740 one thing I noticed was again this is 1490 00:55:35,390 --> 00:55:33,359 where you can actually be fooled by the 1491 00:55:36,890 --> 00:55:35,400 footage because it looks like the thing 1492 00:55:39,410 --> 00:55:36,900 is flying towards the plane right 1493 00:55:40,790 --> 00:55:39,420 perhaps even a great clip but actually 1494 00:55:42,170 --> 00:55:40,800 in that kind of situation if you've ever 1495 00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:42,180 been in a plane and something sort of 1496 00:55:46,609 --> 00:55:44,400 flies over you it might actually be 1497 00:55:48,290 --> 00:55:46,619 pretty much stationary but it's still 1498 00:55:50,510 --> 00:55:48,300 going to look like it's moving because 1499 00:55:51,770 --> 00:55:50,520 you're moving right so these are you 1500 00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:51,780 know so in other words that could have 1501 00:55:54,770 --> 00:55:53,520 been a balloon potentially right and it 1502 00:55:56,569 --> 00:55:54,780 would look like it's coming at you and 1503 00:55:58,849 --> 00:55:56,579 people go that thing's going way too 1504 00:56:00,170 --> 00:55:58,859 fast for a balloon but it may just be an 1505 00:56:02,030 --> 00:56:00,180 artifact of the fact that you the the 1506 00:56:03,589 --> 00:56:02,040 plane is moving forward and so it gives 1507 00:56:05,329 --> 00:56:03,599 the impression that that object is 1508 00:56:07,069 --> 00:56:05,339 coming at a great clip but it might not 1509 00:56:09,349 --> 00:56:07,079 be but these are the the kind of things 1510 00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,359 that that need to be analyzed when they 1511 00:56:15,049 --> 00:56:12,240 determine what they are yeah uh totally 1512 00:56:16,910 --> 00:56:15,059 and the um you know it's interesting and 1513 00:56:18,770 --> 00:56:16,920 if I could be charitable and I you know 1514 00:56:21,710 --> 00:56:18,780 I tend to be charitable by default so it 1515 00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:21,720 is a weakness that I have but uh to show 1516 00:56:27,950 --> 00:56:24,720 a video of a metallic sphere uh in that 1517 00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:27,960 official capacity and to label it is on 1518 00:56:33,109 --> 00:56:32,160 as still unresolved and the fact that it 1519 00:56:36,049 --> 00:56:33,119 is 1520 00:56:38,990 --> 00:56:36,059 very much looks the same as the sphere 1521 00:56:41,510 --> 00:56:39,000 presented by Jeremy Corbell 1522 00:56:43,309 --> 00:56:41,520 you know we're talking about Framing and 1523 00:56:45,770 --> 00:56:43,319 neuro-linguistic programming and and 1524 00:56:48,109 --> 00:56:45,780 getting people primed to be open to 1525 00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:48,119 these things what have I just done I've 1526 00:56:55,250 --> 00:56:50,880 connected these two 1527 00:56:56,930 --> 00:56:55,260 objects together and whereas on one end 1528 00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:56,940 of that connection I have someone who's 1529 00:57:03,049 --> 00:57:00,480 not uncomfortable with a pretty wide 1530 00:57:06,290 --> 00:57:03,059 range of speculative theory about this 1531 00:57:08,690 --> 00:57:06,300 and is known to be kind of the UFO guy 1532 00:57:10,970 --> 00:57:08,700 uh and then on the other end you have 1533 00:57:12,829 --> 00:57:10,980 the scientist right but we've made a 1534 00:57:16,609 --> 00:57:12,839 connection here between these two 1535 00:57:21,670 --> 00:57:16,619 objects and and that does uh play a role 1536 00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:21,680 in the way in which we now look at 1537 00:57:27,890 --> 00:57:24,240 objects that are going to be similar but 1538 00:57:30,530 --> 00:57:27,900 also look at the legitimacy of these two 1539 00:57:32,450 --> 00:57:30,540 different efforts the legitimacy of what 1540 00:57:34,790 --> 00:57:32,460 Jeremy is doing and George is doing 1541 00:57:37,370 --> 00:57:34,800 which gets a lot of flex sometimes by 1542 00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:37,380 the way and the legitimacy of era we've 1543 00:57:43,490 --> 00:57:41,040 now in a way conjoined these two uh you 1544 00:57:45,770 --> 00:57:43,500 know at least in this aspect and we 1545 00:57:47,450 --> 00:57:45,780 we've we've you know you depending on on 1546 00:57:49,670 --> 00:57:47,460 your bias I suppose you could say well 1547 00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:49,680 now it's lowered the legitimacy in my 1548 00:57:54,170 --> 00:57:51,839 mind of Kirkpatrick where it's raised 1549 00:57:56,450 --> 00:57:54,180 legitimacy of Korbel and Knapp or vice 1550 00:57:58,490 --> 00:57:56,460 versa right so I find that very 1551 00:58:01,670 --> 00:57:58,500 interesting and uh and just again 1552 00:58:04,370 --> 00:58:01,680 another example of how this uh hearing I 1553 00:58:07,130 --> 00:58:04,380 think plays a pivotal role as another 1554 00:58:10,609 --> 00:58:07,140 stepping stone in the in the path that 1555 00:58:13,130 --> 00:58:10,619 we need to lay before us 1556 00:58:15,109 --> 00:58:13,140 indeed and I would suggest again when 1557 00:58:17,630 --> 00:58:15,119 people really think about every single 1558 00:58:20,690 --> 00:58:17,640 word that's spoken every gesture that's 1559 00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:20,700 made every bit of evidence that's shown 1560 00:58:25,549 --> 00:58:23,280 I would suggest it's carefully carefully 1561 00:58:26,930 --> 00:58:25,559 chosen beforehand so 1562 00:58:28,309 --> 00:58:26,940 again the fact that those two videos 1563 00:58:30,470 --> 00:58:28,319 were shown 1564 00:58:32,329 --> 00:58:30,480 the fact that one has been resolved by 1565 00:58:34,430 --> 00:58:32,339 going through the the process that 1566 00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:34,440 Kirkpatrick and his uh colleagues have 1567 00:58:38,030 --> 00:58:36,240 set up and that the other one is 1568 00:58:40,670 --> 00:58:38,040 mid-stream he made that point right that 1569 00:58:42,530 --> 00:58:40,680 it's mid-stream so again what's implied 1570 00:58:44,630 --> 00:58:42,540 there is once the full process has 1571 00:58:46,549 --> 00:58:44,640 happened there that that too will likely 1572 00:58:48,109 --> 00:58:46,559 be resolved he didn't say that he 1573 00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:48,119 doesn't have to say that that's the 1574 00:58:51,170 --> 00:58:50,160 point right you plant that notion in 1575 00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:51,180 people's mind that's where the 1576 00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:53,280 neuro-linguistic programming comes in 1577 00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:55,920 even to the point where I even wonder if 1578 00:59:00,049 --> 00:58:58,079 this is just speculation but I just 1579 00:59:01,970 --> 00:59:00,059 wonder if he has a strong leaning 1580 00:59:03,230 --> 00:59:01,980 already up they will be able to explain 1581 00:59:06,410 --> 00:59:03,240 that one 1582 00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:06,420 and and that will actually further 1583 00:59:10,370 --> 00:59:08,640 this notion that these are all 1584 00:59:11,930 --> 00:59:10,380 ultimately explainable right which 1585 00:59:13,490 --> 00:59:11,940 speaks to I think what we want to get to 1586 00:59:17,349 --> 00:59:13,500 next which you can sort of lean in with 1587 00:59:20,870 --> 00:59:17,359 in terms of turning these UAP into sep 1588 00:59:24,170 --> 00:59:20,880 yeah exactly man I love these acronyms 1589 00:59:26,750 --> 00:59:24,180 uh all right so I had not heard this 1590 00:59:29,950 --> 00:59:26,760 acronym before or if I did I certainly 1591 00:59:35,150 --> 00:59:29,960 didn't retain it but 1592 00:59:37,309 --> 00:59:35,160 s-e-p somebody else's problem and uh 1593 00:59:39,950 --> 00:59:37,319 Senator Ernst uh picked up on that right 1594 00:59:42,049 --> 00:59:39,960 away when uh or actually I think she 1595 00:59:44,930 --> 00:59:42,059 even introduced introduced it and he 1596 00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:44,940 paired it back to her uh but you know he 1597 00:59:50,809 --> 00:59:47,280 made a a very clear point that what he 1598 00:59:53,450 --> 00:59:50,819 wanted to do was the the mission of that 1599 00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:53,460 office was basically to to 1600 00:59:58,370 --> 00:59:55,200 you know get itself out of the business 1601 01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:58,380 of of being even involved with this and 1602 01:00:03,170 --> 01:00:01,200 and normalize the uh the collection the 1603 01:00:05,450 --> 01:00:03,180 analysis the entire process from start 1604 01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:05,460 to finish and make that a standard 1605 01:00:10,910 --> 01:00:08,640 process that is baked into uh the uh 1606 01:00:14,650 --> 01:00:10,920 standard operating procedures of all of 1607 01:00:19,609 --> 01:00:14,660 our military branches that they then own 1608 01:00:21,230 --> 01:00:19,619 uh UAP and they all are owning that just 1609 01:00:23,329 --> 01:00:21,240 like they own everything that they do 1610 01:00:25,609 --> 01:00:23,339 now that they have a a way in which 1611 01:00:28,010 --> 01:00:25,619 they're supposed to use their sensor 1612 01:00:30,109 --> 01:00:28,020 platform they're supposed to train their 1613 01:00:31,609 --> 01:00:30,119 operators in how they report on what 1614 01:00:33,770 --> 01:00:31,619 what they experience and how they 1615 01:00:36,349 --> 01:00:33,780 interact with you know objects that are 1616 01:00:39,049 --> 01:00:36,359 certain of a certain kind so normalizing 1617 01:00:41,329 --> 01:00:39,059 that across the board so that it is no 1618 01:00:43,789 --> 01:00:41,339 longer arrows problem but somebody 1619 01:00:45,289 --> 01:00:43,799 else's problem I I just love it what did 1620 01:00:47,809 --> 01:00:45,299 you think about that one 1621 01:00:50,270 --> 01:00:47,819 well a few things come to mind number 1622 01:00:51,589 --> 01:00:50,280 one and this is really really careful 1623 01:00:54,230 --> 01:00:51,599 political theater when you think about 1624 01:00:56,450 --> 01:00:54,240 it because when you say and he did say 1625 01:00:58,970 --> 01:00:56,460 this that his goal is to eventually work 1626 01:01:00,849 --> 01:00:58,980 himself out of a job in the sense that 1627 01:01:03,650 --> 01:01:00,859 his goal was to eventually 1628 01:01:05,089 --> 01:01:03,660 establish protocols by which you could 1629 01:01:07,849 --> 01:01:05,099 you could determine what these things 1630 01:01:10,370 --> 01:01:07,859 were and then make sure that existing 1631 01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:10,380 agencies improve their own protocols 1632 01:01:14,450 --> 01:01:12,480 their own tools of analysis so they 1633 01:01:16,010 --> 01:01:14,460 could perform those same functions so 1634 01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:16,020 that in the end you would not need an 1635 01:01:20,450 --> 01:01:18,480 arrow right so what I mean it sound like 1636 01:01:23,089 --> 01:01:20,460 again he didn't say it he doesn't have 1637 01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:23,099 to it's implied that what we have here 1638 01:01:28,190 --> 01:01:25,680 is a lack of sufficient protocols and 1639 01:01:30,230 --> 01:01:28,200 tools of analysis in place in existing 1640 01:01:31,309 --> 01:01:30,240 agencies to determine what these things 1641 01:01:32,990 --> 01:01:31,319 are 1642 01:01:34,910 --> 01:01:33,000 now if he had said something different 1643 01:01:36,410 --> 01:01:34,920 imagine how different the the vibe would 1644 01:01:38,089 --> 01:01:36,420 have been if he'd said 1645 01:01:39,770 --> 01:01:38,099 I want to make it clear today that we're 1646 01:01:41,690 --> 01:01:39,780 seeing things that are so anomalous that 1647 01:01:43,789 --> 01:01:41,700 my expectation is that this office is 1648 01:01:46,549 --> 01:01:43,799 going to be a permanent permanent office 1649 01:01:47,809 --> 01:01:46,559 fully funded on the level of the FBI or 1650 01:01:50,089 --> 01:01:47,819 the CIA 1651 01:01:52,430 --> 01:01:50,099 or the National Security Agency because 1652 01:01:54,289 --> 01:01:52,440 this is a major phenomenon that 1653 01:01:56,210 --> 01:01:54,299 stretches our very understanding of what 1654 01:01:58,130 --> 01:01:56,220 is real imagine if that had been his 1655 01:01:59,750 --> 01:01:58,140 response right as opposed to what he 1656 01:02:01,670 --> 01:01:59,760 said which is that 1657 01:02:04,190 --> 01:02:01,680 my goal is to work myself out of a job 1658 01:02:05,990 --> 01:02:04,200 basically and eventually establish 1659 01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:06,000 protocols by which we can determine 1660 01:02:09,650 --> 01:02:08,400 through the usual tools of scientific 1661 01:02:11,089 --> 01:02:09,660 inquiry 1662 01:02:13,069 --> 01:02:11,099 to determine what these things are 1663 01:02:14,569 --> 01:02:13,079 because ultimately they had prosaic 1664 01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:14,579 explanations in other words and once we 1665 01:02:18,650 --> 01:02:16,559 have those protocols established in 1666 01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:18,660 existing agencies problem solved right 1667 01:02:22,910 --> 01:02:20,640 he didn't say that exactly but again 1668 01:02:25,549 --> 01:02:22,920 that's what's implied 1669 01:02:28,910 --> 01:02:25,559 yeah I can almost see the SNL skit right 1670 01:02:30,530 --> 01:02:28,920 now uh you know the scientist walks in 1671 01:02:33,049 --> 01:02:30,540 the room okay everybody calm down the 1672 01:02:34,250 --> 01:02:33,059 scientist is here uh nothing crazy to 1673 01:02:36,530 --> 01:02:34,260 see and they're in this entire 1674 01:02:38,809 --> 01:02:36,540 conversation there are you know aliens 1675 01:02:40,250 --> 01:02:38,819 standing behind him you know he's and 1676 01:02:42,109 --> 01:02:40,260 he's saying no no it's it's fine 1677 01:02:43,970 --> 01:02:42,119 everything's okay we've we've had a 1678 01:02:47,030 --> 01:02:43,980 process we don't know what this is It's 1679 01:02:49,970 --> 01:02:47,040 not that uh you know it definitely had 1680 01:02:51,890 --> 01:02:49,980 that kind of subtext in a way if I'm 1681 01:02:55,069 --> 01:02:51,900 being uncharitable right that that he's 1682 01:02:58,130 --> 01:02:55,079 uh bringing that uh you know cold 1683 01:03:01,789 --> 01:02:58,140 rational analysis uh to this intractable 1684 01:03:03,829 --> 01:03:01,799 problem that uh we should stop uh 1685 01:03:06,829 --> 01:03:03,839 entertaining the the speculative 1686 01:03:09,890 --> 01:03:06,839 theories of of bloggers and social media 1687 01:03:12,349 --> 01:03:09,900 people let the scientists do their job 1688 01:03:14,210 --> 01:03:12,359 right uh because once the scientists do 1689 01:03:16,309 --> 01:03:14,220 their job then we'll take it from the 1690 01:03:18,530 --> 01:03:16,319 explained or from The Unexplained into 1691 01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:18,540 the category of the explained and and 1692 01:03:24,049 --> 01:03:21,359 then we're in our work here is done 1693 01:03:26,990 --> 01:03:24,059 um yeah it's quite interesting thing uh 1694 01:03:30,410 --> 01:03:27,000 you know I I do wonder how that's going 1695 01:03:31,970 --> 01:03:30,420 to play later down the road right uh and 1696 01:03:34,670 --> 01:03:31,980 I think before the hearing there were 1697 01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:34,680 several uh folks who were you know 1698 01:03:38,210 --> 01:03:36,720 fairly connected who made statements to 1699 01:03:41,150 --> 01:03:38,220 that effect right that whenever 1700 01:03:43,549 --> 01:03:41,160 Kirkpatrick says uh you know it will 1701 01:03:46,430 --> 01:03:43,559 basically kind of be the millstone 1702 01:03:49,250 --> 01:03:46,440 around his neck later on if he if he 1703 01:03:51,829 --> 01:03:49,260 isn't careful right uh so we'll we'll 1704 01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:51,839 see time will tell what kind of corner 1705 01:03:55,430 --> 01:03:53,520 he may or may not have painted himself 1706 01:03:58,010 --> 01:03:55,440 into there 1707 01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:58,020 indeed and um 1708 01:04:01,130 --> 01:03:59,760 I think you you hit the nail in the head 1709 01:04:03,230 --> 01:04:01,140 there where you said that basically not 1710 01:04:05,690 --> 01:04:03,240 only did he describe what he's doing and 1711 01:04:08,210 --> 01:04:05,700 what his office is doing but how that 1712 01:04:10,849 --> 01:04:08,220 stands in opposition or contrast to what 1713 01:04:13,849 --> 01:04:10,859 has been happening in the blogosphere 1714 01:04:16,190 --> 01:04:13,859 and the in social media uh right in 1715 01:04:18,710 --> 01:04:16,200 terms of he he kind of did take a swing 1716 01:04:20,750 --> 01:04:18,720 at that and said that basically the only 1717 01:04:23,150 --> 01:04:20,760 reason why that thing has become a big 1718 01:04:25,490 --> 01:04:23,160 thing with all this conversation and 1719 01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:25,500 speculative kind of analysis is because 1720 01:04:30,589 --> 01:04:28,079 they are not bringing to Bear the tools 1721 01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:30,599 of rationality and the scientific method 1722 01:04:36,109 --> 01:04:32,880 right in a clear established cold 1723 01:04:39,289 --> 01:04:36,119 calculated uh method of inquiry that can 1724 01:04:42,289 --> 01:04:39,299 determine slowly and surely what these 1725 01:04:44,690 --> 01:04:42,299 things actually are right so definitely 1726 01:04:46,430 --> 01:04:44,700 um not only 1727 01:04:48,770 --> 01:04:46,440 tweeting his own horn and his own office 1728 01:04:51,170 --> 01:04:48,780 but also taking a bit of swipe at the at 1729 01:04:52,789 --> 01:04:51,180 the at the rest of us kind of thing 1730 01:04:54,650 --> 01:04:52,799 but I would also point out that I know 1731 01:04:56,809 --> 01:04:54,660 that our perspective would be 1732 01:04:59,270 --> 01:04:56,819 we're completely pro-science here we we 1733 01:05:00,530 --> 01:04:59,280 want scientific inquiry here again this 1734 01:05:02,990 --> 01:05:00,540 this gets to what we talked about 1735 01:05:05,089 --> 01:05:03,000 earlier in terms of 1736 01:05:08,210 --> 01:05:05,099 you know this is a step forward in that 1737 01:05:09,410 --> 01:05:08,220 sense right whenever you normalize that 1738 01:05:12,170 --> 01:05:09,420 um then you're going to have more and 1739 01:05:13,549 --> 01:05:12,180 more people that feel justified in 1740 01:05:15,829 --> 01:05:13,559 stepping into the ring right so there 1741 01:05:17,210 --> 01:05:15,839 may be people who are still very 1742 01:05:19,970 --> 01:05:17,220 skeptical of the notion that this is 1743 01:05:22,849 --> 01:05:19,980 anything non-prosaic but at least now 1744 01:05:25,190 --> 01:05:22,859 they can perhaps get funding and 1745 01:05:26,510 --> 01:05:25,200 approval from their academic departments 1746 01:05:29,450 --> 01:05:26,520 to actually study this right and that's 1747 01:05:30,589 --> 01:05:29,460 a good thing right because those of us 1748 01:05:32,630 --> 01:05:30,599 who've been intimately familiar with 1749 01:05:34,309 --> 01:05:32,640 this know there's so there's something 1750 01:05:36,289 --> 01:05:34,319 there there is a there there as I like 1751 01:05:38,510 --> 01:05:36,299 to say then let's bring in as many 1752 01:05:40,549 --> 01:05:38,520 people as we can and I think this is a 1753 01:05:43,329 --> 01:05:40,559 sign that things are moving forward not 1754 01:05:45,829 --> 01:05:43,339 only in terms of engaging with Academia 1755 01:05:47,450 --> 01:05:45,839 but also as that happens more and more 1756 01:05:49,609 --> 01:05:47,460 then the media is going to slowly but 1757 01:05:51,349 --> 01:05:49,619 surely be more comfortable jumping into 1758 01:05:53,809 --> 01:05:51,359 the ring too because not only is there 1759 01:05:55,809 --> 01:05:53,819 political precedence now for discussing 1760 01:05:59,450 --> 01:05:55,819 these matters and using terms like UAP 1761 01:06:01,910 --> 01:05:59,460 right and anomalous and phenomenon but 1762 01:06:04,370 --> 01:06:01,920 you have you know established academic 1763 01:06:06,190 --> 01:06:04,380 departments at well respected 1764 01:06:08,569 --> 01:06:06,200 universities around the world also 1765 01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:08,579 inquiring about this and looking into it 1766 01:06:13,089 --> 01:06:11,520 so this again is is a win-win in in the 1767 01:06:15,049 --> 01:06:13,099 big picture 1768 01:06:16,549 --> 01:06:15,059 yep you've got to win over the 1769 01:06:19,250 --> 01:06:16,559 establishment and I think that's exactly 1770 01:06:21,230 --> 01:06:19,260 what this is doing uh now Switching 1771 01:06:23,270 --> 01:06:21,240 gears a little bit here uh to some 1772 01:06:25,370 --> 01:06:23,280 slightly different topics but also been 1773 01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:25,380 you know really hot topics this week and 1774 01:06:31,910 --> 01:06:29,039 even as recent as today uh you know we 1775 01:06:35,270 --> 01:06:31,920 know that Ross coultart has uh talked a 1776 01:06:38,329 --> 01:06:35,280 lot recently about in conversations that 1777 01:06:40,010 --> 01:06:38,339 are taking place increasingly in uh 1778 01:06:42,950 --> 01:06:40,020 sensitive compartmented information 1779 01:06:46,069 --> 01:06:42,960 facilities or Skiffs and in particular 1780 01:06:48,589 --> 01:06:46,079 we just heard that there is uh a 1781 01:06:52,190 --> 01:06:48,599 gathering of intelligence heads at 1782 01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:52,200 Wright-Patterson Air Force Base uh that 1783 01:06:57,049 --> 01:06:54,480 at least from it from one person who was 1784 01:06:59,329 --> 01:06:57,059 who commented on this Gathering was 1785 01:07:01,970 --> 01:06:59,339 unprecedented in the in the history of 1786 01:07:03,529 --> 01:07:01,980 this particular committee uh so there's 1787 01:07:05,870 --> 01:07:03,539 a show and tell happening at 1788 01:07:07,730 --> 01:07:05,880 Wright-Patterson uh that is certainly 1789 01:07:09,710 --> 01:07:07,740 very interesting 1790 01:07:10,849 --> 01:07:09,720 um that's weird because when I think of 1791 01:07:12,170 --> 01:07:10,859 Ray Patterson I don't think it has 1792 01:07:15,710 --> 01:07:12,180 anything to do with ufology right 1793 01:07:17,630 --> 01:07:15,720 there's zero connection to ufology at 1794 01:07:20,990 --> 01:07:17,640 all just another Air Force Base I guess 1795 01:07:23,029 --> 01:07:21,000 yes indeed uh Tim McMillan was quoted as 1796 01:07:25,370 --> 01:07:23,039 saying this on Twitter today this is 1797 01:07:27,410 --> 01:07:25,380 incredibly bizarre senior leadership 1798 01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:27,420 from nearly every U.S intelligence 1799 01:07:31,670 --> 01:07:29,280 agency and members of the select 1800 01:07:35,329 --> 01:07:31,680 committee on intelligence are at right 1801 01:07:38,390 --> 01:07:35,339 Pat for a briefing and only local media 1802 01:07:41,150 --> 01:07:38,400 in Dayton is reporting on it unquote 1803 01:07:43,730 --> 01:07:41,160 so his point is to to what you said that 1804 01:07:45,710 --> 01:07:43,740 this is unprecedented right and now 1805 01:07:48,170 --> 01:07:45,720 perhaps people might think this is to do 1806 01:07:49,490 --> 01:07:48,180 with like the recent uh classified 1807 01:07:51,109 --> 01:07:49,500 information link that happened on 1808 01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:51,119 Discord right maybe it's it's the 1809 01:07:55,130 --> 01:07:53,520 different you know political leaders 1810 01:07:56,329 --> 01:07:55,140 saying we need to get together and talk 1811 01:07:59,809 --> 01:07:56,339 about how we can prevent this from 1812 01:08:03,049 --> 01:07:59,819 happening maybe but you know you put you 1813 01:08:04,549 --> 01:08:03,059 you add up uh the uh accused here and 1814 01:08:05,750 --> 01:08:04,559 it's certainly at least intriguing right 1815 01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:05,760 we have 1816 01:08:11,990 --> 01:08:07,920 this office established to look into 1817 01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:12,000 anomalous phenomena right we have 1818 01:08:16,249 --> 01:08:13,920 um political leaders at a high level 1819 01:08:18,110 --> 01:08:16,259 talking about anomalous objects even 1820 01:08:19,510 --> 01:08:18,120 when we think back to the the balloon 1821 01:08:21,890 --> 01:08:19,520 gate kind of scenario right 1822 01:08:23,749 --> 01:08:21,900 interestingly recently on the need to 1823 01:08:25,430 --> 01:08:23,759 know podcast I'm not sure if you caught 1824 01:08:27,890 --> 01:08:25,440 this but Ross kulthart said that he's 1825 01:08:30,470 --> 01:08:27,900 heard reports that one of the objects 1826 01:08:32,510 --> 01:08:30,480 that was shot at and was hit something 1827 01:08:34,189 --> 01:08:32,520 fell from the object but the object did 1828 01:08:36,590 --> 01:08:34,199 not go down 1829 01:08:38,209 --> 01:08:36,600 contrary to what has been reported or at 1830 01:08:39,769 --> 01:08:38,219 least assumed in the reporting right 1831 01:08:41,870 --> 01:08:39,779 which is very very interesting so again 1832 01:08:44,030 --> 01:08:41,880 I was saying this is kind of what I've 1833 01:08:46,189 --> 01:08:44,040 heard as well allegedly is that there's 1834 01:08:48,229 --> 01:08:46,199 more to to it than meets the eye right 1835 01:08:51,110 --> 01:08:48,239 and that sort of kicked off this entire 1836 01:08:52,789 --> 01:08:51,120 new round of interest and inquiry and 1837 01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:52,799 political statements about this entire 1838 01:08:57,349 --> 01:08:55,199 topic right and then you follow that up 1839 01:08:58,849 --> 01:08:57,359 over the over the spring here now where 1840 01:09:00,829 --> 01:08:58,859 we have these senior leadership 1841 01:09:02,870 --> 01:09:00,839 Gathering it right Patterson Air Force 1842 01:09:05,570 --> 01:09:02,880 Base and just in case people are not 1843 01:09:08,269 --> 01:09:05,580 familiar this is probably the most 1844 01:09:12,050 --> 01:09:08,279 famous place right alongside Area 51 and 1845 01:09:13,970 --> 01:09:12,060 S4 and all that in in Nevada where there 1846 01:09:16,010 --> 01:09:13,980 have been reportedly been crash 1847 01:09:18,829 --> 01:09:16,020 retrievals taken too right and even 1848 01:09:20,990 --> 01:09:18,839 alien bodies taken to Wright-Patterson 1849 01:09:23,510 --> 01:09:21,000 is at the center of that entire 1850 01:09:25,550 --> 01:09:23,520 historical narrative and this is exactly 1851 01:09:27,370 --> 01:09:25,560 where as we speak in the midst of all 1852 01:09:29,990 --> 01:09:27,380 these conversations about offices 1853 01:09:32,150 --> 01:09:30,000 investigating anomalous phenomena at the 1854 01:09:34,849 --> 01:09:32,160 very same time this is happening at 1855 01:09:36,550 --> 01:09:34,859 Wright-Patt with an unprecedented number 1856 01:09:38,809 --> 01:09:36,560 of political leaders Gathering Together 1857 01:09:40,669 --> 01:09:38,819 intelligence groups and whatnot to 1858 01:09:43,430 --> 01:09:40,679 discuss something right so it certainly 1859 01:09:47,329 --> 01:09:43,440 is suggestive if nothing else 1860 01:09:48,709 --> 01:09:47,339 I mean it's weird man uh it is super 1861 01:09:50,269 --> 01:09:48,719 strange 1862 01:09:51,950 --> 01:09:50,279 um I don't know if they're pulling the 1863 01:09:54,229 --> 01:09:51,960 bodies out of the freezer down there I 1864 01:09:55,610 --> 01:09:54,239 mean I don't know what's going on uh you 1865 01:09:57,830 --> 01:09:55,620 know of course I it looks a little bit 1866 01:09:59,450 --> 01:09:57,840 tongue-in-cheek I have no idea I mean I 1867 01:10:01,630 --> 01:09:59,460 am just speculating but like you said 1868 01:10:06,590 --> 01:10:01,640 the lore the UFO lore about 1869 01:10:08,750 --> 01:10:06,600 Wright-Patterson is uh very rich uh with 1870 01:10:12,770 --> 01:10:08,760 um you know interesting you know stories 1871 01:10:15,830 --> 01:10:12,780 of of uh material and craft and bodies 1872 01:10:17,810 --> 01:10:15,840 and you know secret labs and all those 1873 01:10:22,250 --> 01:10:17,820 kinds of things I think even 1874 01:10:25,370 --> 01:10:22,260 um General McCaslin was in charge of a 1875 01:10:26,570 --> 01:10:25,380 laboratory there at one point uh so of 1876 01:10:28,250 --> 01:10:26,580 course those of you who don't know and 1877 01:10:30,830 --> 01:10:28,260 he's the general who was connected to 1878 01:10:34,370 --> 01:10:30,840 Tom Delong which kind of kicked off this 1879 01:10:37,729 --> 01:10:34,380 most recent uh you know fervor into into 1880 01:10:39,169 --> 01:10:37,739 this entire topic so uh it's it's very 1881 01:10:41,450 --> 01:10:39,179 very strange 1882 01:10:43,550 --> 01:10:41,460 um and the low level of publicity is 1883 01:10:45,890 --> 01:10:43,560 also strange I mean it's I guess you 1884 01:10:49,010 --> 01:10:45,900 could argue that uh you know keeping it 1885 01:10:50,630 --> 01:10:49,020 on the down low is just maybe smart uh 1886 01:10:53,390 --> 01:10:50,640 because you have so many important 1887 01:10:55,370 --> 01:10:53,400 people gathered in one place uh you want 1888 01:10:57,950 --> 01:10:55,380 to make sure that you're thinking uh of 1889 01:10:59,689 --> 01:10:57,960 this the security concerns there uh that 1890 01:11:01,729 --> 01:10:59,699 being said they're at an Air Force Base 1891 01:11:03,229 --> 01:11:01,739 I would hope it would be that one of the 1892 01:11:04,970 --> 01:11:03,239 most secure places that they could be 1893 01:11:07,310 --> 01:11:04,980 regardless of who knows that they're 1894 01:11:09,709 --> 01:11:07,320 there uh or not 1895 01:11:11,330 --> 01:11:09,719 um and uh and the fact that it's not it 1896 01:11:13,790 --> 01:11:11,340 you know made its way to any kind of 1897 01:11:15,770 --> 01:11:13,800 national news media at all is a little 1898 01:11:17,630 --> 01:11:15,780 bit peculiar 1899 01:11:20,570 --> 01:11:17,640 um you know I'm certainly not one to say 1900 01:11:22,669 --> 01:11:20,580 that the government has uh you know 1901 01:11:24,770 --> 01:11:22,679 buttons that that oppresses to say you 1902 01:11:26,390 --> 01:11:24,780 know talk about this story on CNN talk 1903 01:11:28,669 --> 01:11:26,400 about this story and I I don't think 1904 01:11:30,950 --> 01:11:28,679 that that's the case but but there it 1905 01:11:32,149 --> 01:11:30,960 but it is true that there are ties that 1906 01:11:35,330 --> 01:11:32,159 every one of these large media 1907 01:11:37,550 --> 01:11:35,340 organizations has ties with these 1908 01:11:39,830 --> 01:11:37,560 government agencies and when the 1909 01:11:42,590 --> 01:11:39,840 government wants a story to you know 1910 01:11:45,169 --> 01:11:42,600 make the rounds it will do what it does 1911 01:11:46,970 --> 01:11:45,179 it'll call those journalists and say hey 1912 01:11:48,410 --> 01:11:46,980 I've got something interesting to tell 1913 01:11:52,310 --> 01:11:48,420 you that you might that your network 1914 01:11:54,050 --> 01:11:52,320 might want to air a story on and uh the 1915 01:11:56,689 --> 01:11:54,060 network then has to judge am I being 1916 01:11:58,450 --> 01:11:56,699 played here uh by the state should I air 1917 01:12:01,610 --> 01:11:58,460 this story should I not air this story 1918 01:12:03,110 --> 01:12:01,620 uh you know if I don't air it will my 1919 01:12:06,770 --> 01:12:03,120 competitor air it and then it'll be like 1920 01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:06,780 well I'm you know I'm not uh you know 1921 01:12:10,250 --> 01:12:08,880 chasing the hot stories like they are so 1922 01:12:12,530 --> 01:12:10,260 I'm going to lose some viewership right 1923 01:12:14,930 --> 01:12:12,540 so it but that's not happened that story 1924 01:12:16,970 --> 01:12:14,940 hasn't hit the other network so uh 1925 01:12:19,250 --> 01:12:16,980 definitely peculiar 1926 01:12:21,530 --> 01:12:19,260 um we can only speculate but but man 1927 01:12:23,270 --> 01:12:21,540 crazy connections there 1928 01:12:24,950 --> 01:12:23,280 yeah and one last piece I'd add before 1929 01:12:26,390 --> 01:12:24,960 we move on to the next part with the 1930 01:12:29,149 --> 01:12:26,400 John Ramirez what he's been saying 1931 01:12:30,709 --> 01:12:29,159 recently is that again can you can you 1932 01:12:33,910 --> 01:12:30,719 uh tell us what skiff stands for again 1933 01:12:37,370 --> 01:12:33,920 yeah sensitive compartmented information 1934 01:12:40,010 --> 01:12:37,380 facility right so what Ross coldheart 1935 01:12:43,250 --> 01:12:40,020 reported on was that various political 1936 01:12:45,590 --> 01:12:43,260 leaders have been given uh classified 1937 01:12:47,689 --> 01:12:45,600 briefings in these facilities right and 1938 01:12:50,209 --> 01:12:47,699 so just to be clear 1939 01:12:52,850 --> 01:12:50,219 even an Air Force Base is not considered 1940 01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:52,860 generally secure enough for these kinds 1941 01:12:56,570 --> 01:12:54,239 of classified briefings there are 1942 01:13:00,410 --> 01:12:56,580 specific facilities that have insane 1943 01:13:02,330 --> 01:13:00,420 levels of security uh installed so that 1944 01:13:04,370 --> 01:13:02,340 there's no way that there could ever be 1945 01:13:06,290 --> 01:13:04,380 any concern of of an adversary or 1946 01:13:10,070 --> 01:13:06,300 something overhearing what's being 1947 01:13:11,689 --> 01:13:10,080 spoken so Ross's point was pretending 1948 01:13:13,310 --> 01:13:11,699 it's a balloon gate right this whole 1949 01:13:15,770 --> 01:13:13,320 notion of these objects that came over 1950 01:13:17,390 --> 01:13:15,780 the U.S airspace were shot down some of 1951 01:13:19,070 --> 01:13:17,400 them were not shot down some of them 1952 01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:19,080 were retrieved some were not retrieved 1953 01:13:22,250 --> 01:13:20,400 but there's a lot of confusion about 1954 01:13:23,630 --> 01:13:22,260 what happened and I would suggest 1955 01:13:26,030 --> 01:13:23,640 perhaps even 1956 01:13:27,649 --> 01:13:26,040 that that was by Design right again part 1957 01:13:29,810 --> 01:13:27,659 of this this notion of moving the 1958 01:13:31,850 --> 01:13:29,820 narrative forward but Ross's point was 1959 01:13:33,950 --> 01:13:31,860 if this was really just about Chinese 1960 01:13:36,950 --> 01:13:33,960 balloons why do you need to have the 1961 01:13:38,510 --> 01:13:36,960 briefing in a skiff right you only do 1962 01:13:40,790 --> 01:13:38,520 that when it's the most sensitive 1963 01:13:43,790 --> 01:13:40,800 information that you're taking the 1964 01:13:46,610 --> 01:13:43,800 highest security uh precaution you 1965 01:13:47,930 --> 01:13:46,620 possibly can so again that in itself is 1966 01:13:50,510 --> 01:13:47,940 suggestive of something really 1967 01:13:53,570 --> 01:13:50,520 significant happening there 1968 01:13:55,550 --> 01:13:53,580 yeah I guess we will wait and see uh if 1969 01:13:58,010 --> 01:13:55,560 anything material comes out of that 1970 01:14:00,169 --> 01:13:58,020 hopefully there are some uh Intrepid 1971 01:14:02,149 --> 01:14:00,179 reporters who have some access there 1972 01:14:04,250 --> 01:14:02,159 that are going to dig up uh some extra 1973 01:14:06,470 --> 01:14:04,260 nuggets around that particular story to 1974 01:14:08,209 --> 01:14:06,480 be keeping our eyes on that well one 1975 01:14:09,350 --> 01:14:08,219 less before you jump on too I just want 1976 01:14:11,209 --> 01:14:09,360 to point this out because you made me 1977 01:14:13,370 --> 01:14:11,219 think of something and that is that I 1978 01:14:15,830 --> 01:14:13,380 think you're absolutely right that when 1979 01:14:18,590 --> 01:14:15,840 these things are happening it kind of is 1980 01:14:20,750 --> 01:14:18,600 as a is a cookie offered to the media to 1981 01:14:22,430 --> 01:14:20,760 the press to say do you see what we're 1982 01:14:25,490 --> 01:14:22,440 doing over here we're having this 1983 01:14:27,350 --> 01:14:25,500 unprecedented Gathering of officials at 1984 01:14:29,090 --> 01:14:27,360 Wright-Patterson Air Force Base 1985 01:14:30,950 --> 01:14:29,100 in other words one of the things I've 1986 01:14:33,110 --> 01:14:30,960 suggested or that I've heard 1987 01:14:35,870 --> 01:14:33,120 in the Grapevine so to speak is that 1988 01:14:39,050 --> 01:14:35,880 part of the the move towards disclosure 1989 01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:39,060 allegedly involves the media also 1990 01:14:42,050 --> 01:14:40,320 playing a role right so we need 1991 01:14:44,270 --> 01:14:42,060 academics we need media we need 1992 01:14:46,910 --> 01:14:44,280 politicians all moving forward on this 1993 01:14:49,010 --> 01:14:46,920 so that this can become normalized for 1994 01:14:51,290 --> 01:14:49,020 our Collective Society right so when 1995 01:14:53,750 --> 01:14:51,300 these kind of things happen it's also I 1996 01:14:57,290 --> 01:14:53,760 think a kind of political theater that 1997 01:14:59,270 --> 01:14:57,300 is trying to behoove media to take 1998 01:15:00,649 --> 01:14:59,280 notice and say why is this happening it 1999 01:15:02,930 --> 01:15:00,659 shouldn't just be us asking these 2000 01:15:04,669 --> 01:15:02,940 questions or Ross Colt art and Bryce 2001 01:15:06,169 --> 01:15:04,679 Sabal right this should be happening in 2002 01:15:07,370 --> 01:15:06,179 mainstream media and I think that's what 2003 01:15:10,850 --> 01:15:07,380 they're hoping will eventually happen 2004 01:15:13,070 --> 01:15:10,860 yeah that's an excellent point uh just 2005 01:15:14,330 --> 01:15:13,080 ask right somebody anybody 2006 01:15:18,110 --> 01:15:14,340 um all right so 2007 01:15:20,689 --> 01:15:18,120 uh in other hot news uh John Ramirez I 2008 01:15:22,729 --> 01:15:20,699 always love listening to John and uh 2009 01:15:28,430 --> 01:15:22,739 he's uh he's a fountain of information 2010 01:15:31,070 --> 01:15:28,440 uh so he was recently on the Opus uh 2011 01:15:32,270 --> 01:15:31,080 show or Opus YouTube channel and I feel 2012 01:15:34,610 --> 01:15:32,280 forgive me I don't remember what the 2013 01:15:36,050 --> 01:15:34,620 Opus acronym stands for 2014 01:15:38,750 --> 01:15:36,060 um but it is kind of a support 2015 01:15:40,490 --> 01:15:38,760 Organization for folks I believe who are 2016 01:15:41,390 --> 01:15:40,500 experiencers 2017 01:15:44,090 --> 01:15:41,400 um 2018 01:15:46,130 --> 01:15:44,100 and so John said a lot of really 2019 01:15:47,050 --> 01:15:46,140 interesting things on that on that 2020 01:15:49,669 --> 01:15:47,060 episode 2021 01:15:52,070 --> 01:15:49,679 one which stands out in my mind anyway 2022 01:15:56,270 --> 01:15:52,080 is that disclosure the disclosure 2023 01:16:00,830 --> 01:15:56,280 timeline is now uh considered to be in 2024 01:16:03,050 --> 01:16:00,840 terms of months not years uh that that 2025 01:16:04,550 --> 01:16:03,060 we are really the gas I guess we're 2026 01:16:06,709 --> 01:16:04,560 hitting the gas here and they're going 2027 01:16:09,290 --> 01:16:06,719 to be some big kind of Bombshells coming 2028 01:16:11,510 --> 01:16:09,300 uh fourth uh fairly soon and he also 2029 01:16:14,030 --> 01:16:11,520 made a point to say it's not going to 2030 01:16:16,490 --> 01:16:14,040 come from behind a government Podium 2031 01:16:19,189 --> 01:16:16,500 it's going to come at the public through 2032 01:16:20,330 --> 01:16:19,199 some other kind of means so I don't even 2033 01:16:22,669 --> 01:16:20,340 know where to begin with that but it 2034 01:16:24,830 --> 01:16:22,679 sounds very exciting 2035 01:16:26,930 --> 01:16:24,840 well before we dive into it who is John 2036 01:16:28,310 --> 01:16:26,940 Ramirez and and why shouldn't take what 2037 01:16:29,930 --> 01:16:28,320 he said seriously that's true doesn't 2038 01:16:31,790 --> 01:16:29,940 everybody know who John Ramirez so John 2039 01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:31,800 Ramirez thank you good question good to 2040 01:16:36,830 --> 01:16:35,040 you up there is a a retired uh CIA 2041 01:16:40,250 --> 01:16:36,840 officer 2042 01:16:42,470 --> 01:16:40,260 uh who who uh where does he work in like 2043 01:16:44,330 --> 01:16:42,480 uh I think it was like ballistic uh 2044 01:16:47,990 --> 01:16:44,340 missile intelligence or you know 2045 01:16:49,490 --> 01:16:48,000 analyzing uh you know the kinds of 2046 01:16:51,169 --> 01:16:49,500 things that you'd need people to take to 2047 01:16:53,630 --> 01:16:51,179 pay attention to if you've got missiles 2048 01:16:56,570 --> 01:16:53,640 flying across the atmosphere right 2049 01:16:59,330 --> 01:16:56,580 yeah exactly he has quite a uh um a 2050 01:17:01,070 --> 01:16:59,340 background with a lot of insight from 2051 01:17:02,990 --> 01:17:01,080 experience into these kinds of matters 2052 01:17:06,649 --> 01:17:03,000 he's also made it clear that he 2053 01:17:08,090 --> 01:17:06,659 deliberately avoided having to sign an 2054 01:17:10,669 --> 01:17:08,100 NDA 2055 01:17:13,130 --> 01:17:10,679 a non-disclosure agreement around the 2056 01:17:15,470 --> 01:17:13,140 UFO topic because he he's always been 2057 01:17:18,590 --> 01:17:15,480 fascinated by this topic and one thing 2058 01:17:20,090 --> 01:17:18,600 that makes him unique is that he also uh 2059 01:17:21,950 --> 01:17:20,100 is an experiencer and he's been very 2060 01:17:25,370 --> 01:17:21,960 open about that so not only he's a 2061 01:17:27,290 --> 01:17:25,380 former CIA analyst who has you know 2062 01:17:29,930 --> 01:17:27,300 access to information that the average 2063 01:17:31,550 --> 01:17:29,940 person does not but he also is an 2064 01:17:34,550 --> 01:17:31,560 experiencer who's had many of his own 2065 01:17:37,850 --> 01:17:34,560 encounters and he's gone so far as to 2066 01:17:39,709 --> 01:17:37,860 avoid being directly associated with 2067 01:17:41,270 --> 01:17:39,719 being read into certain programs that 2068 01:17:44,149 --> 01:17:41,280 would involve a non-disclosure agreement 2069 01:17:45,830 --> 01:17:44,159 because he wants to have full ability to 2070 01:17:47,630 --> 01:17:45,840 talk about these things because it's a 2071 01:17:50,570 --> 01:17:47,640 passion of his as is often the case for 2072 01:17:52,550 --> 01:17:50,580 experiencers and to share what he knows 2073 01:17:55,910 --> 01:17:52,560 without you know disclosing classified 2074 01:17:58,010 --> 01:17:55,920 information so so the reason why we um 2075 01:18:00,169 --> 01:17:58,020 you know clarify who he is is to say 2076 01:18:02,209 --> 01:18:00,179 that this is someone who you know 2077 01:18:05,450 --> 01:18:02,219 supposedly knows that of which they 2078 01:18:07,910 --> 01:18:05,460 speak and he also went on to say in this 2079 01:18:09,709 --> 01:18:07,920 uh in this show that he knows these 2080 01:18:12,050 --> 01:18:09,719 things things these these bold claims 2081 01:18:14,450 --> 01:18:12,060 he's making based on 2082 01:18:17,390 --> 01:18:14,460 you know associations he has with his 2083 01:18:19,189 --> 01:18:17,400 previous employment so he's not just 2084 01:18:21,350 --> 01:18:19,199 hearing on some podcast or something 2085 01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:21,360 he's basically saying he's hearing this 2086 01:18:26,030 --> 01:18:24,480 from internal channels right that again 2087 01:18:27,229 --> 01:18:26,040 just to make this really clear this is a 2088 01:18:30,229 --> 01:18:27,239 bold statement 2089 01:18:33,050 --> 01:18:30,239 he's saying disclosure is happening in a 2090 01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:33,060 matter of months now not years so it 2091 01:18:37,970 --> 01:18:35,040 would already be compared to the long 2092 01:18:40,130 --> 01:18:37,980 history 75 80 years of this topic right 2093 01:18:42,470 --> 01:18:40,140 the modern UFO phenomenon would already 2094 01:18:43,970 --> 01:18:42,480 be a big thing to say hey I think big 2095 01:18:45,290 --> 01:18:43,980 changes are coming in the next you know 2096 01:18:47,270 --> 01:18:45,300 a few years 2097 01:18:49,390 --> 01:18:47,280 but he's going beyond that he's saying 2098 01:18:52,490 --> 01:18:49,400 that he's aware of 2099 01:18:54,950 --> 01:18:52,500 machinations internally that are 2100 01:18:57,950 --> 01:18:54,960 preparing for some sort of level of 2101 01:18:59,810 --> 01:18:57,960 disclosure to the public within months 2102 01:19:02,450 --> 01:18:59,820 this is a this is kind of a 2103 01:19:05,030 --> 01:19:02,460 groundbreaking statement to make and I 2104 01:19:07,610 --> 01:19:05,040 think based on his background I I I'm 2105 01:19:09,290 --> 01:19:07,620 I'm thinking he would not make such a 2106 01:19:10,790 --> 01:19:09,300 statement unless he had a fair degree of 2107 01:19:11,870 --> 01:19:10,800 confidence that this was the case what 2108 01:19:14,870 --> 01:19:11,880 do you think 2109 01:19:16,070 --> 01:19:14,880 yeah I mean I I definitely uh listen to 2110 01:19:19,490 --> 01:19:16,080 what he says 2111 01:19:21,470 --> 01:19:19,500 um you know I find to be quite credible 2112 01:19:23,630 --> 01:19:21,480 um 2113 01:19:26,390 --> 01:19:23,640 yeah I'm hopeful I I hope that things 2114 01:19:29,209 --> 01:19:26,400 transpire in that way uh I hope that 2115 01:19:31,130 --> 01:19:29,219 they uh you know kind of catalyze the 2116 01:19:33,229 --> 01:19:31,140 changes that you know we've many of the 2117 01:19:35,930 --> 01:19:33,239 changes that we've talked about uh with 2118 01:19:38,450 --> 01:19:35,940 respect to the phenomenon 2119 01:19:41,209 --> 01:19:38,460 um you know he did mention as well just 2120 01:19:43,070 --> 01:19:41,219 to iterate your reiterate here that you 2121 01:19:46,430 --> 01:19:43,080 know even in saying months we might mean 2122 01:19:47,750 --> 01:19:46,440 12 months or 18 months uh and I think 2123 01:19:49,790 --> 01:19:47,760 that that's important point to make 2124 01:19:51,709 --> 01:19:49,800 because uh you know when you're talking 2125 01:19:54,110 --> 01:19:51,719 about years you're talking about you 2126 01:19:55,970 --> 01:19:54,120 know in multiples uh so 24 months would 2127 01:19:57,729 --> 01:19:55,980 be the the when you kick into the years 2128 01:20:00,649 --> 01:19:57,739 catboy right so anything less than that 2129 01:20:02,510 --> 01:20:00,659 exactly correct and I want to bring that 2130 01:20:04,010 --> 01:20:02,520 up because he said that a lot of what 2131 01:20:06,229 --> 01:20:04,020 they're hearing and he was pleased with 2132 01:20:09,229 --> 01:20:06,239 the hearing a lot of what it did is is 2133 01:20:12,649 --> 01:20:09,239 it it does further bring this topic into 2134 01:20:15,709 --> 01:20:12,659 the the acceptable uh circle of 2135 01:20:18,770 --> 01:20:15,719 conversation and that it was his uh 2136 01:20:20,990 --> 01:20:18,780 opinion and hope that it would become 2137 01:20:24,649 --> 01:20:21,000 part of the political discourse as we 2138 01:20:26,810 --> 01:20:24,659 move into to the 2024 election year and 2139 01:20:29,750 --> 01:20:26,820 he even made the statement that it was 2140 01:20:32,750 --> 01:20:29,760 again his opinion that the the the next 2141 01:20:35,330 --> 01:20:32,760 president whoever wins the 2024 election 2142 01:20:38,270 --> 01:20:35,340 would basically be the disclosure 2143 01:20:40,189 --> 01:20:38,280 president uh so I I want to make sure we 2144 01:20:42,590 --> 01:20:40,199 bring all that to the fore here because 2145 01:20:44,750 --> 01:20:42,600 uh when I hear months maybe my initial 2146 01:20:46,910 --> 01:20:44,760 reaction is Hey by the summer you know 2147 01:20:49,189 --> 01:20:46,920 I'm going to have uh you know spaceships 2148 01:20:51,110 --> 01:20:49,199 that I can fly around you know but it 2149 01:20:52,790 --> 01:20:51,120 may not be quite like that although he 2150 01:20:56,090 --> 01:20:52,800 did mention I want to point this out 2151 01:20:58,669 --> 01:20:56,100 something he said that uh he did give 2152 01:21:01,790 --> 01:20:58,679 mention to uh maybe there would be a 2153 01:21:04,070 --> 01:21:01,800 future but in which we could explore you 2154 01:21:06,169 --> 01:21:04,080 know the Galaxy in these kinds of craft 2155 01:21:08,570 --> 01:21:06,179 I mean that is an incredible statement 2156 01:21:10,790 --> 01:21:08,580 to make I don't know if it's just a you 2157 01:21:13,070 --> 01:21:10,800 know a wishful thinking uh you know 2158 01:21:15,890 --> 01:21:13,080 statement but uh I mean it's hard even 2159 01:21:19,850 --> 01:21:15,900 to imagine but it's certainly cool 2160 01:21:22,130 --> 01:21:19,860 it is and and this sort of adds to this 2161 01:21:24,830 --> 01:21:22,140 the growing conversation we're hearing 2162 01:21:26,149 --> 01:21:24,840 around 2023 being a big year for this 2163 01:21:28,729 --> 01:21:26,159 topic and again I know there are some 2164 01:21:31,250 --> 01:21:28,739 people that have been bludgeoned into 2165 01:21:33,410 --> 01:21:31,260 skepticism I'm talking about enthusiasts 2166 01:21:34,910 --> 01:21:33,420 who have been Legend into skepticism 2167 01:21:36,890 --> 01:21:34,920 about there being any kind of official 2168 01:21:39,530 --> 01:21:36,900 disclosure because they've seen it time 2169 01:21:41,870 --> 01:21:39,540 and time again uh not happen right not 2170 01:21:44,570 --> 01:21:41,880 come to fruition and they've seen you 2171 01:21:46,790 --> 01:21:44,580 know groups in the military be able to 2172 01:21:48,350 --> 01:21:46,800 effectively shut down even inquiries 2173 01:21:50,689 --> 01:21:48,360 into these kinds of things right which 2174 01:21:52,430 --> 01:21:50,699 again Ross and and Bryce got into that 2175 01:21:54,530 --> 01:21:52,440 in their last episode 2176 01:21:56,330 --> 01:21:54,540 but it really seems like the the times 2177 01:21:58,910 --> 01:21:56,340 have changed and and that it's not just 2178 01:22:00,830 --> 01:21:58,920 that it's not just because people are 2179 01:22:02,689 --> 01:22:00,840 putting feed to the fire and that 2180 01:22:05,570 --> 01:22:02,699 Congress people are trying to hold 2181 01:22:07,370 --> 01:22:05,580 military groups to account but also that 2182 01:22:09,169 --> 01:22:07,380 people internally that have been 2183 01:22:12,410 --> 01:22:09,179 involved with the secret keeping 2184 01:22:14,090 --> 01:22:12,420 allegedly are are also the ones that are 2185 01:22:15,770 --> 01:22:14,100 actually trying to make this happen and 2186 01:22:18,590 --> 01:22:15,780 very interestingly he also added this 2187 01:22:20,630 --> 01:22:18,600 extra bit of nuance that there is also a 2188 01:22:22,610 --> 01:22:20,640 faction within internal circles that 2189 01:22:23,870 --> 01:22:22,620 does not want this to come out and are 2190 01:22:26,570 --> 01:22:23,880 determined to make sure that doesn't 2191 01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:26,580 happen but he even went as far as to say 2192 01:22:31,669 --> 01:22:29,040 therefore those who do want this to come 2193 01:22:35,209 --> 01:22:31,679 out that are internally involved have 2194 01:22:37,370 --> 01:22:35,219 are really scheming together to make 2195 01:22:39,110 --> 01:22:37,380 sure it happens that it basically can't 2196 01:22:40,490 --> 01:22:39,120 be stopped this time and that's what 2197 01:22:41,930 --> 01:22:40,500 gives him the confidence to make the 2198 01:22:43,630 --> 01:22:41,940 statement that it's a matter of months 2199 01:22:46,729 --> 01:22:43,640 not years 2200 01:22:50,149 --> 01:22:46,739 yeah that's certainly intriguing uh he 2201 01:22:52,130 --> 01:22:50,159 also mentioned uh to keep eyes on uh the 2202 01:22:54,830 --> 01:22:52,140 sort of Twitter sphere uh that there 2203 01:22:58,189 --> 01:22:54,840 might be some notable uh Personalities 2204 01:23:00,530 --> 01:22:58,199 in UFO Twitter who are connected that 2205 01:23:03,229 --> 01:23:00,540 might be making some statements uh to 2206 01:23:04,550 --> 01:23:03,239 pay attention to in other words so I 2207 01:23:06,110 --> 01:23:04,560 think that's his way of saying I can't 2208 01:23:08,030 --> 01:23:06,120 say these things but some people will be 2209 01:23:10,970 --> 01:23:08,040 saying them and when they do you know 2210 01:23:12,850 --> 01:23:10,980 that's a hint that this is connected to 2211 01:23:15,830 --> 01:23:12,860 that very effort that he is speaking of 2212 01:23:18,530 --> 01:23:15,840 uh so you know we certainly will see 2213 01:23:21,410 --> 01:23:18,540 we'll keep our eyes peeled out for that 2214 01:23:23,689 --> 01:23:21,420 um you know I'm hopeful uh I'm hopeful 2215 01:23:26,810 --> 01:23:23,699 again that this this transpires in a way 2216 01:23:29,030 --> 01:23:26,820 that is transformative uh for us as a 2217 01:23:32,390 --> 01:23:29,040 people because as you and I have talked 2218 01:23:35,030 --> 01:23:32,400 about many many times if 2219 01:23:37,370 --> 01:23:35,040 if this is disclosed and all it means is 2220 01:23:39,709 --> 01:23:37,380 uh we get to take this technology and 2221 01:23:41,810 --> 01:23:39,719 you know do the stupid human things 2222 01:23:44,930 --> 01:23:41,820 we've been doing with technology uh that 2223 01:23:47,510 --> 01:23:44,940 it's not a very good decision right so 2224 01:23:50,450 --> 01:23:47,520 um it needs to result in some real uh 2225 01:23:52,250 --> 01:23:50,460 societal uh change you know in the way 2226 01:23:54,709 --> 01:23:52,260 that we treat each other the way that we 2227 01:23:56,570 --> 01:23:54,719 uh operate uh the way that you know we 2228 01:23:59,750 --> 01:23:56,580 structure our entire cultures and 2229 01:24:01,430 --> 01:23:59,760 Society say all that stuff has to change 2230 01:24:02,930 --> 01:24:01,440 um because it's uh you know it's 2231 01:24:05,030 --> 01:24:02,940 imperative it's imperative we cannot 2232 01:24:07,669 --> 01:24:05,040 continue to operate and be the way that 2233 01:24:10,490 --> 01:24:07,679 we are uh we can't take you know 2234 01:24:12,830 --> 01:24:10,500 historical human thinking in into the 2235 01:24:14,689 --> 01:24:12,840 cosmos it's just not going to work and I 2236 01:24:16,490 --> 01:24:14,699 don't think that the cosmos will allow 2237 01:24:19,070 --> 01:24:16,500 it either for that matter 2238 01:24:21,590 --> 01:24:19,080 indeed and and I think the the action 2239 01:24:23,570 --> 01:24:21,600 we're seeing where so much of this 2240 01:24:25,370 --> 01:24:23,580 phenomenon seems to be ramping up right 2241 01:24:27,830 --> 01:24:25,380 that's that's what's being reported 2242 01:24:30,530 --> 01:24:27,840 both in terms of civilians reporting 2243 01:24:32,090 --> 01:24:30,540 these things and also military groups 2244 01:24:33,590 --> 01:24:32,100 reporting them now of course people will 2245 01:24:35,450 --> 01:24:33,600 point out that there's a lot more cell 2246 01:24:37,130 --> 01:24:35,460 phones than there used to be so maybe 2247 01:24:39,530 --> 01:24:37,140 it's just that there's more opportunity 2248 01:24:41,390 --> 01:24:39,540 to capture these things but actually 2249 01:24:43,189 --> 01:24:41,400 ironically we spend so much time looking 2250 01:24:44,990 --> 01:24:43,199 down at our screens when we're walking 2251 01:24:46,910 --> 01:24:45,000 around that probably there's far fewer 2252 01:24:48,530 --> 01:24:46,920 people spending their evenings looking 2253 01:24:50,990 --> 01:24:48,540 up in the night sky than used to be the 2254 01:24:53,930 --> 01:24:51,000 case right so I think that it is 2255 01:24:56,689 --> 01:24:53,940 significant and one could argue one 2256 01:25:00,530 --> 01:24:56,699 could make the argument that 2257 01:25:02,450 --> 01:25:00,540 perhaps the phenomenon or elements of it 2258 01:25:04,550 --> 01:25:02,460 are ramping up because of their 2259 01:25:06,709 --> 01:25:04,560 awareness that we are at a precipice 2260 01:25:09,350 --> 01:25:06,719 that something needs to change and so 2261 01:25:11,630 --> 01:25:09,360 perhaps there has even been a change in 2262 01:25:14,510 --> 01:25:11,640 calculus there that maybe this is the 2263 01:25:16,850 --> 01:25:14,520 time where some sort of intervention or 2264 01:25:19,130 --> 01:25:16,860 some sort of um Reckoning with something 2265 01:25:22,430 --> 01:25:19,140 larger than the usual human Affairs is 2266 01:25:24,530 --> 01:25:22,440 considered necessary to really move the 2267 01:25:27,590 --> 01:25:24,540 needle here because subtle changes 2268 01:25:30,770 --> 01:25:27,600 superficial alterations to to climate 2269 01:25:31,850 --> 01:25:30,780 policy and to you know energy policy is 2270 01:25:34,729 --> 01:25:31,860 not going to do it here we need 2271 01:25:37,490 --> 01:25:34,739 something significant we we are kind of 2272 01:25:39,950 --> 01:25:37,500 again a log Jam in terms of our 2273 01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:39,960 technological progress leaping further 2274 01:25:42,950 --> 01:25:41,520 and further ahead we've talked about AI 2275 01:25:45,050 --> 01:25:42,960 the last couple episodes we don't need 2276 01:25:47,149 --> 01:25:45,060 to get into it again but 2277 01:25:49,130 --> 01:25:47,159 you know bio weapons nuclear weapons 2278 01:25:52,970 --> 01:25:49,140 that that's all heating up again right 2279 01:25:55,430 --> 01:25:52,980 so all that is leaping forward uh with 2280 01:25:56,510 --> 01:25:55,440 remarkable pace and yet the the center 2281 01:25:58,370 --> 01:25:56,520 of gravity of the collective 2282 01:26:01,070 --> 01:25:58,380 Consciousness on the planet for Humanity 2283 01:26:02,270 --> 01:26:01,080 is not not even You could argue it's not 2284 01:26:04,610 --> 01:26:02,280 even really moving forward it's 2285 01:26:06,709 --> 01:26:04,620 certainly not keeping up pace with the 2286 01:26:09,110 --> 01:26:06,719 technological changes we're seeing so 2287 01:26:11,030 --> 01:26:09,120 perhaps that's indeed what what is going 2288 01:26:14,110 --> 01:26:11,040 on here that it could be a calculus from 2289 01:26:18,470 --> 01:26:14,120 some of the others that that something 2290 01:26:20,149 --> 01:26:18,480 necessary uh is is needed here and that 2291 01:26:22,330 --> 01:26:20,159 perhaps even this is because again 2292 01:26:25,189 --> 01:26:22,340 getting into this notion of 2293 01:26:27,590 --> 01:26:25,199 experiencers having so much of a sense 2294 01:26:29,990 --> 01:26:27,600 of a coming cataclysm or a sense of some 2295 01:26:32,570 --> 01:26:30,000 sort of coming apocalypse so many of the 2296 01:26:35,330 --> 01:26:32,580 experiencers end up having visions being 2297 01:26:37,129 --> 01:26:35,340 shown directly images of the Earth in 2298 01:26:39,649 --> 01:26:37,139 great distress and the sense that this 2299 01:26:41,810 --> 01:26:39,659 is the future for Humanity and that part 2300 01:26:44,510 --> 01:26:41,820 of the intervention of these others 2301 01:26:47,209 --> 01:26:44,520 being here is to possibly either prevent 2302 01:26:48,350 --> 01:26:47,219 that or to help us mitigate that when it 2303 01:26:50,629 --> 01:26:48,360 happens these are the kind of things 2304 01:26:53,510 --> 01:26:50,639 going on but I think when we think about 2305 01:26:56,689 --> 01:26:53,520 this move in in the public that 2306 01:26:58,550 --> 01:26:56,699 politically academically in the media a 2307 01:27:00,709 --> 01:26:58,560 little bit you know not moving as fast 2308 01:27:03,410 --> 01:27:00,719 as it should but these moves of 2309 01:27:05,390 --> 01:27:03,420 normalizing this topic perhaps are 2310 01:27:06,649 --> 01:27:05,400 getting us closer to this day but we do 2311 01:27:09,110 --> 01:27:06,659 have this Reckoning with something 2312 01:27:12,050 --> 01:27:09,120 Beyond us that maybe is exactly what we 2313 01:27:13,850 --> 01:27:12,060 need to to finally 2314 01:27:15,669 --> 01:27:13,860 fundamentally changed when we think 2315 01:27:19,070 --> 01:27:15,679 about being a civilization 2316 01:27:21,290 --> 01:27:19,080 yeah well said well in the last couple 2317 01:27:23,750 --> 01:27:21,300 minutes here I wanted to spend just a 2318 01:27:26,270 --> 01:27:23,760 brief amount of time on 2319 01:27:28,430 --> 01:27:26,280 the reaction that experiencers might be 2320 01:27:29,930 --> 01:27:28,440 having to this conversation kind of 2321 01:27:31,610 --> 01:27:29,940 where we are right now and you did 2322 01:27:34,790 --> 01:27:31,620 allude to the fact that John Ramirez 2323 01:27:36,410 --> 01:27:34,800 himself is an experiencer uh and he's 2324 01:27:38,330 --> 01:27:36,420 optimistic 2325 01:27:40,910 --> 01:27:38,340 um but I'm I'm also aware that there are 2326 01:27:43,430 --> 01:27:40,920 those experiences who uh you know kind 2327 01:27:46,370 --> 01:27:43,440 of watch this transpire and just get 2328 01:27:49,669 --> 01:27:46,380 incredibly frustrated that the pace of 2329 01:27:51,290 --> 01:27:49,679 this conversation is so slow uh and that 2330 01:27:53,090 --> 01:27:51,300 uh you know it's because it's literally 2331 01:27:55,310 --> 01:27:53,100 happening to to them and if you've 2332 01:27:57,770 --> 01:27:55,320 experienced something that is uh you 2333 01:28:00,169 --> 01:27:57,780 know personally impactful or traumatic I 2334 01:28:02,270 --> 01:28:00,179 mean you can relive that trauma every 2335 01:28:04,790 --> 01:28:02,280 single day of your life and and so it 2336 01:28:07,970 --> 01:28:04,800 feels immediate you know it feels 2337 01:28:09,470 --> 01:28:07,980 present right now and so I'm aware that 2338 01:28:12,649 --> 01:28:09,480 that is uh you know certainly 2339 01:28:14,330 --> 01:28:12,659 appreciative to those folks and uh you 2340 01:28:15,530 --> 01:28:14,340 know I'm sensitive to that 2341 01:28:16,910 --> 01:28:15,540 um you know so I don't know what what 2342 01:28:19,669 --> 01:28:16,920 are your thoughts on that with the 2343 01:28:21,770 --> 01:28:19,679 experience or Community do we think that 2344 01:28:23,330 --> 01:28:21,780 um they're that they're you know more 2345 01:28:25,669 --> 01:28:23,340 hopeful now or is it just kind of more 2346 01:28:27,290 --> 01:28:25,679 of the same same frustration 2347 01:28:30,169 --> 01:28:27,300 I think it's a bit of both right because 2348 01:28:32,090 --> 01:28:30,179 on the one hand I think anyone who's 2349 01:28:33,830 --> 01:28:32,100 being objective acknowledges that we're 2350 01:28:35,810 --> 01:28:33,840 having a level of public discourse that 2351 01:28:38,149 --> 01:28:35,820 we've not had before right I think back 2352 01:28:39,950 --> 01:28:38,159 to the 90s and you know you'd have uh 2353 01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:39,960 John Mack appearing on the Oprah show 2354 01:28:43,729 --> 01:28:42,000 right and that was a big Revelation back 2355 01:28:45,709 --> 01:28:43,739 then right but you were not having the 2356 01:28:47,090 --> 01:28:45,719 kind of governmental conversation that 2357 01:28:48,950 --> 01:28:47,100 we're having now 2358 01:28:51,890 --> 01:28:48,960 so that's a positive for sure a net 2359 01:28:54,350 --> 01:28:51,900 positive but but again the the elephant 2360 01:28:58,189 --> 01:28:54,360 in the room for experiencers and the way 2361 01:29:00,709 --> 01:28:58,199 I look at it as well is that you know we 2362 01:29:03,410 --> 01:29:00,719 have many many many people that not only 2363 01:29:05,390 --> 01:29:03,420 report encountering these crafts but the 2364 01:29:07,189 --> 01:29:05,400 beings operating them but there's a 2365 01:29:09,590 --> 01:29:07,199 remarkable overlap in terms of the 2366 01:29:11,209 --> 01:29:09,600 nature of those experiences so that in 2367 01:29:13,070 --> 01:29:11,219 itself if you ask any intelligence 2368 01:29:16,129 --> 01:29:13,080 analyst they would say that is valid 2369 01:29:17,750 --> 01:29:16,139 data we need to be looking into that we 2370 01:29:19,610 --> 01:29:17,760 should have a congressional committee 2371 01:29:21,770 --> 01:29:19,620 that's interviewing experiencers right 2372 01:29:23,510 --> 01:29:21,780 and and collating the data and saying 2373 01:29:25,070 --> 01:29:23,520 look at these interesting overlaps we 2374 01:29:28,970 --> 01:29:25,080 could again one of the ways we could 2375 01:29:30,290 --> 01:29:28,980 employ AI in a positive way is to and I 2376 01:29:32,090 --> 01:29:30,300 hope to do some of this in the future is 2377 01:29:33,649 --> 01:29:32,100 to look through all this mountains of 2378 01:29:36,410 --> 01:29:33,659 data experience your data right around 2379 01:29:37,790 --> 01:29:36,420 encounters and look for patterns what 2380 01:29:39,890 --> 01:29:37,800 can this tell us about this that we've 2381 01:29:41,270 --> 01:29:39,900 missed up until now right because this 2382 01:29:43,490 --> 01:29:41,280 has been suppressed and not really 2383 01:29:45,830 --> 01:29:43,500 engaged with the way it needs to be so 2384 01:29:48,169 --> 01:29:45,840 so this is a a huge opportunity I think 2385 01:29:50,149 --> 01:29:48,179 and I hope that at some point what 2386 01:29:52,550 --> 01:29:50,159 happens is that that does become part of 2387 01:29:54,770 --> 01:29:52,560 this public process is actually talking 2388 01:29:56,510 --> 01:29:54,780 to the people because that have had 2389 01:30:00,050 --> 01:29:56,520 these experiences because it's not just 2390 01:30:01,970 --> 01:30:00,060 anecdotal right when you have mountains 2391 01:30:03,649 --> 01:30:01,980 of data where you have this mirrored 2392 01:30:06,110 --> 01:30:03,659 kind of kinds of encounters and the 2393 01:30:08,629 --> 01:30:06,120 kinds of beings described that is a data 2394 01:30:10,129 --> 01:30:08,639 set that is valid evidence used in any 2395 01:30:12,110 --> 01:30:10,139 other kind of field that would look into 2396 01:30:14,510 --> 01:30:12,120 these kinds of matters so we need to get 2397 01:30:16,910 --> 01:30:14,520 past that kind of Log Jam in terms of 2398 01:30:19,070 --> 01:30:16,920 how we consider that and that'll help us 2399 01:30:20,090 --> 01:30:19,080 I think not only move the conversation 2400 01:30:23,030 --> 01:30:20,100 forward 2401 01:30:25,790 --> 01:30:23,040 as a collective but perhaps even finally 2402 01:30:28,250 --> 01:30:25,800 give us some insight into the the the 2403 01:30:30,350 --> 01:30:28,260 means the methods and perhaps even the 2404 01:30:32,510 --> 01:30:30,360 agenda of some of these others so I 2405 01:30:35,870 --> 01:30:32,520 think I hope that this will be part of 2406 01:30:41,590 --> 01:30:38,689 the experiencers are so 2407 01:30:44,390 --> 01:30:41,600 pivotal to this entire Enterprise 2408 01:30:47,110 --> 01:30:44,400 because they 2409 01:30:50,990 --> 01:30:47,120 represent the humanity 2410 01:30:54,410 --> 01:30:51,000 that is entwined with the phenomena 2411 01:30:58,090 --> 01:30:54,420 right and I think nothing will penetrate 2412 01:31:02,030 --> 01:30:58,100 our malaise uh our stupor in a way 2413 01:31:05,270 --> 01:31:02,040 better than the experiencers in our 2414 01:31:08,629 --> 01:31:05,280 communities stepping forward and and 2415 01:31:09,830 --> 01:31:08,639 then them having legitimacy from our 2416 01:31:13,010 --> 01:31:09,840 institutions 2417 01:31:15,410 --> 01:31:13,020 uh that moment will change 2418 01:31:17,990 --> 01:31:15,420 will change us irrevocably 2419 01:31:20,270 --> 01:31:18,000 uh and will be very very powerful and I 2420 01:31:22,250 --> 01:31:20,280 look forward to it it will be very raw 2421 01:31:24,470 --> 01:31:22,260 uh but I think 2422 01:31:27,110 --> 01:31:24,480 um you know we'll we'll be the Catalyst 2423 01:31:28,669 --> 01:31:27,120 for some lasting change in our in our 2424 01:31:29,570 --> 01:31:28,679 species 2425 01:31:31,910 --> 01:31:29,580 um 2426 01:31:34,129 --> 01:31:31,920 well it's been a great episode uh I 2427 01:31:36,709 --> 01:31:34,139 always love doing these kinds of uh you 2428 01:31:37,970 --> 01:31:36,719 know topical what's in the news uh chats 2429 01:31:40,490 --> 01:31:37,980 it's a little bit different than what we 2430 01:31:42,950 --> 01:31:40,500 usually do but uh I feel we'll be doing 2431 01:31:44,570 --> 01:31:42,960 some more of these in the future uh as 2432 01:31:46,910 --> 01:31:44,580 these kinds of things continue to 2433 01:31:49,010 --> 01:31:46,920 develop and I certainly look forward to 2434 01:31:50,629 --> 01:31:49,020 them and I want to thank you I say thank 2435 01:31:54,229 --> 01:31:50,639 you to our lit listeners our little 2436 01:31:55,850 --> 01:31:54,239 frames family that's tough to say uh but 2437 01:31:58,550 --> 01:31:55,860 thank you everyone for giving us a 2438 01:32:00,890 --> 01:31:58,560 listen a like or a share uh we really 2439 01:32:04,370 --> 01:32:00,900 appreciate that and we look forward to 2440 01:32:06,890 --> 01:32:04,380 speaking with you again very soon 2441 01:32:09,350 --> 01:32:06,900 May the quality of our questions shaped 2442 01:32:12,229 --> 01:32:09,360 by a desire for understanding enhance 2443 01:32:14,270 --> 01:32:12,239 our journey of discovery and may our 2444 01:32:17,090 --> 01:32:14,280 travels broaden the sphere of our 2445 01:32:21,250 --> 01:32:17,100 Consciousness reminding us that new 2446 01:32:24,530 --> 01:32:21,260 discoveries beget New Horizons as always 2447 01:32:29,490 --> 01:32:24,540 Adventure awaits we'll see you next time 2448 01:32:33,290 --> 01:32:31,620 [Music] 2449 01:32:39,590 --> 01:32:33,300 [Laughter] 2450 01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:49,750 [Music]